To not want to do a week with DHs family

[Olintia]

My DH isn’t British, most of his family still live in his home country, we have 2 small children who are 2 and 4. We visit his family 2-3 times a year, his parents visit maybe once a year. We just got back from spending new year with them.

His family have a tradition of renting a large villa and everyone getting together for a week in August. Right from his elderly grandparents in their 80s to aunt an and uncles, cousins etc. Normally about 25 people when you add in cousins partners etc.

We have gone every year we can and I absolutely hate it, his family don’t really make adjustments for small children, they still leave dinner until 8pm then serve the courses over 4 or more hours, I’m always told just to give the children a snack in the afternoon and keep them up late, this unsettles the children. They are also loud, music, loud chatting so it’s not easy for me to just put the children to bed and make them food earlier. Language also presents an issue as while I do speak a little of the language and I am working on learning more, most of his family don’t speak much if any English so I can only really converse with DH and he is obviously busy and unable to help translate constantly.
They book the same villa every year, the children are on camp beds, there is a pool with no fence so I’m constantly on high alert, everyone is drinking lots etc.

I find it miserable and hate how it takes up a whole week of annual leave. I don’t mind our other visits as much as we stay with his parents and there is usually only one or two big family meals over the time we are there, where as this is 7 nights of long family meals.

I appreciate it is his culture but I’d like to move to every other year, he has said no. He’s told me I can just not come if I hate it so much but his family will think I am rude and he will be taking the children. I don’t want to miss out on a week with my children and I don’t think his family or DH would look after them well especially with the pool, lots of drinking adults etc.

Ive suggested he goes and leaves the children here but he has said no that this is his family and he doesn’t want to miss it.

We see all his cousins at 2 other times in the year which is more than I see my extended family and they really aren’t good at adapting to children. I asked if it would change when more of his cousins or siblings had children and he said unlikely, that in his family and likely culture children just slot in and go with the flow.

AIBU not wanting to go? How do I handle this?

shes asking not to go to the villa with them as they go every year, I said shes allowed to ask for this. I have no idea if they ever holiday alone , I said shes ALLOWED to ask for holidays alone. And sometimes her needs do trump his, because she has attended the villa many times. Her husbands offer to her not to go is selfish solution. Your priority is your wife and kids not your extended family.

She's only refused because she doesn't trust her DH to keep the kids safe around the pool. If he told her that he will always be the one watching them around the pool and that he won't be drinking, I'm sure that she would feel more relaxed about them going without her. As all the adults apart from OP are drinking all day, she doesn't trust them to keep the kids safe, particularly as the younger one is only two.

I would have a work thing on that conflicts and leave him off alone. He is their father presumably he is going to have to massively step up and not let them drown if he goes alone FFS (if this is a problem then you have a much, much bigger problem) and he will have a proper dose of reality. Currently you are preventing him from being faced with your reality on these trips by covering over these issues doing all the work. If it works I’d continue the same every year.

My DH is half French half Italian. We live in France so our kids grew up with family moments very similar to those you describe.

It's totally normal in much of Europe. And in my experience it's actually good for children. They grow up being used to sociable family moments. French and Italian culture are very child inclusive as opposed to modern UK culture which is what I would call child centered (too child centered in my opinion).
It's good for kids to adapt and to have fun with loving families. It's fine if they fall asleep on a sofa or on someone's lap or in a pram near the table. Try to embrace this culture and take the positives from it (of which there are many). I see a lot of French and Italian kids growing up to be adaptable, sociable, easy going about food and bedtimes and with a sense of family and joy about several generations gathering together.

In my British family I see a lot of more socially awkward kids who can come across as a bit selfish and sometimes even rude as they have grown up used to things being centered around them and their needs and wants being anticipated and met (although I think this is a class issue and more of a middle class phenomenon).

So I would say try to go with the flow. You are a family of 2 cultures. Embrace both.

Also French and Italian families are very used to being around open swimming pools. So it's not surprising that they are pretty relaxed and it. Just keep an eye on your kids and teach them to swim asap. DH and I never trusted other people to watch our kids and would also do a mindful handover as to which one of us was watching them.

Tbh I get it like I wouldn’t want to go with my in laws sounds like he’ll. but I do think a late dinner on holiday is a non issue just change the routine and be flexible on holiday surely if you went away just your family you wouldn’t be eating at 6 and putting them to bed at 8. Can’t they have a snack and siesta? Sounds like they aren’t expected to sit at the table for the whole dinner so can get up and play. It sounds actually like a lovely childhood holiday - I appreciate not so much for you but I can see why your husband wants to do it. Can you not compromise on every other year and you relax a bit on the years you do go?

I think this is sensible, combined with the suggestion to ease out by going for a few days. In those few days you can go off for a walk or to the shop (if there is one) solo. Nice and early in the morning when at least one kid has woken.

Also someone has probably suggested this but I would get your kids swimming and used to pool safety asap. Even the youngest, there are places where they can teach kids to roll on their backs and kick to the side of the pool when they are astonishingly young (private places I think). Of course this isn’t fail safe but it might help ease your worries a little bit.

Incidentally I am with you on the pool safety part and I would absolutely not leave my kids in the charge of other people for longer than 5 minutes at that age, especially when they were drinking. The other stuff (bedtimes/ eating late etc) I think are actually good for kids to get used to on occasion and likely to turn them into more civilised adults long term! As others have said, I’d have a pram/ pushchair with blanket close to the table so the kids can sleep in the evenings if necessary. I’d also take them out in the day in the pushchair as long as it’s not too hot so they can have a good nap.

I was just thinking this?! No hotels, villas, apartments that we've stayed in have EVER had a fenced pool?!

OP, I do think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here because you don't enjoy these holidays with his family.

Kids staying up late / eating dinner late? That's what you do on holidays! Kids adjust and actually most kids love it. The UK is one of the only countries in the world who have a rigid "teatime" of 5-6pm for kids.

Unfenced pool? We've never had a fenced pool on any holiday we've been on! I'm sure that even if the adults are having a nice time and a drink, there will be people watching the kids in the pool. I really, really doubt that their dad (or any family member) will just be letter toddlers run and jump into a completely unsupervised swimming pool.

The children sleep on camp beds? Right..... and???

That said, their dad has said he's happy to go on his own and take the kids so let him! He isn't a teenage babysitter FFS, he is their other parent. Or, if you're really not comfortable with that then I think you need to go and just try to let your hair down and embrace a different culture for a week.

I really don't think it's fair to not let your kids go with him. It's his family and is lovely time for them to bond with other relatives and be fussed over. You wouldn't let your DH stop your kids spending time with your family would you?

Hotels and apartments where there is a communal pool are different (and most have lifeguards or very clearly advertise that they don’t have them!) but in most of Europe I think it is a legal requirement to have a fence around a pool if it is commercially rented out. Partially as a result of a pretty large number of accidents I think.

In the OP’s case it sounds like this is a family friend so no legal requirement but it would still worry me. Especially if the kids are still out and about in the evenings, young and non-swimmers. This is the part of the OP’s post I definitely agree with, I’d be relatively relaxed about the other stuff but not the pool.

We rarely stay in big hotels. More like small villa / apartment complexes or private villas. In Greece, Italy, Croatia, Malta.... None of them have ever had a fence round the pool?? And certainly no life guard! The parents just have to supervise the children!

I've stayed in loads of villas in Europe and they've not had a fenced pool. That's why I'm so surprised at this thread.

I agree with this.

Are your children the youngest op?

I think this sort of holiday is more enjoyable for a six and eight year old rather than a two and four year old.

When they are stil very young, depending on the different personalities involved, having them miss their ordinary sleep schedule is just a pita for parents bc you pay for it ok other ways eg dc not eating, poor behaviour, broken nights etc. Later on when they are a couple of years older, thzy can be much more flexible and tolerate it better imho.

And as far as the pool goes, the distance from the house doesn’t make it any safer. It’s surprising how far a determined toddler can get under their own steam. So many fatal accidents happen when a toddler strays in to next door’s pool for example.

It’s funny because I have never stayed in a villa without a fence! I think it might be a bit of a culture thing as my friends wouldn’t stay anywhere without a safe pool either (I know because we went on a group holiday and it was an absolute non negotiable). All
our kids (14 of them) were under 10.

Googling just now it looks like France has some sort of “pool safety device” as a legal requirement- elsewhere it sounds more regional and/ or as though other countries are either in the process of legislating or it’s more of a regional requirement. Also IME reputable holiday lettings agencies tend to insist upon it.

www.beauchamp.com/blog/swimming-pool-laws-rules-france/

In this case I think the whole issue is that the OP is worried that supervision of the pool is more of a group/ informal affair in the daytime (so not the parents), and is done by people who have bed drinking, and us non existent at night when everyone is at dinner. I’d also be worried about this setup with kids of her ages who can’t swim.

I totally understand your worry about the pool, especially if most people are drinking throughout the day. For that reason alone, I’d want to be there instead of relying on others to keep the children safe.
On one hand, I think it sounds quite lovely to have all generations of the family come together for a week and I can understand why your husband is keen to continue this but I also understand your concerns and I’d find it quite overwhelming to be with all of his family speaking a language that I wasn’t fluent in. It doesn’t sound like much of a holiday for you!
I’d be suggesting you have a separate villa or apartment, so that you have somewhere to ‘escape’ to and somewhere where the children can get some normal sleep. Best of both worlds surely?

Afraid I'm with your husband OP. I think its really a case of you not liking them and wanting to spend a week with them.
If you go to an all inclusive hotel, the pool is not closed off either, you have to watch your children! In regards to the food, I would lighten up for a week. You married a man from another culture, you have to make sacrifices. You live beside your family, its understandable he wants to spend time with his family. Sorry, I think you're being selfish.

My ex was Spanish. This is how I lived a decade of my life.
From the comments on this thread, I now recognise why mumsnetters think I'm weird, its because this is now who I am. Meals served like this, shorter versions when we are alone and in winter, a meal with guests easily lasts 3 hours all in, with one thing and another. I Learned Spanish, I got involved in my partners family, I plain and simple joined in with their life. Along the way I must have recognised that UK way of life just isn't for me.
That relationship ended, and ive been in the UK several years now, I'm happily married, and next summer am moving to Spain, near to my Spanish family, and we will be staying there for the rest of our lives. My in-laws adore my new DH, so I guess you will all have a shit ton to say about that aswell as it isn't MN norm and they should hate him right? My ex has stayed with me and DH and we see him a few times a year.
But to me, OP is being particularly difficult to her DH and not accepting his way of life and this bit is only my opinion,that is a situation that can't last

Sorry, I had misread!

I see his point. I feel like you're suggesting his culture is wrong or bad in some way and I'm not even from there.

You sound very rigid and inflexible. The language barrier I do understand but its on you to learn his language and frankly rude of you not to. Apply yourself to this - his language and culture matters and you should respect it.

I think you sound overly anxious and rigid. If you can't adjust your children to the new schedule for one week, just feed them yourself at their usual time, put them to bed as usual with a white noise machine and then get on with enjoying the holiday. It's only one week FFS. Even if they're being noisy, so what. Chatting and music is not a huge issue.

Your kids will get older and all of this will matter less. This sounds like an amazing holiday and a fantastic opportunity for the kids to spend time with their father's family. I absolutely would not be depriving them of it.

Nope, would not be for me! Maybe once every couple years or for a special occasion, but I would not enjoy it.

Dh goes to visit his family and takes dc with him and leaves me home. It’s great. Send him with the kids. He will manage just fine especially with all the extra help.

And yes, children can do late nights and a shift in routine just fine. We’ve been going to Spain since youngest was 8 months. No issues with late dinners out. Now that he’s older he loves a 10pm trip to the playground or walk along the beach and a stop for ice cream. Staying up late will not break them. 😂

I doubt the OP is coming back to read a bunch of critical posts 😂 but I would note that the Italian birth rate is significantly below that of the UK, so possibly Italian women don't find the work involved, for the mums, of maintaining the idyllic Med lifestyle, all that appealing. Who knows.

I note also that, from what the OP added in subsequent posts, the DH appears to be the only one from this large extended family to have young children. If it's a tribe they're joining, it's an ageing one.

The DH here chose to live in another country and marry someone from there, conveniently with hands-on parents who do childcare and they earn enough together to travel to Italy 3x a year. He made choices too.

Might not break them. Might break her!

It must be absolutely fab to have children who are adaptive and flexible.

Yeah, it was pretty cool raising my kids, they would adapt to anything, long haul themes park holidays for 3 weeks, family villas, or caravans at haven. We did it all.

Well, er... good for you?

Holidays are an endurance test with some kids.

Just wanted to add that one of the reasons for late meals in the summer anyway is because it's so hot during the day in Italy. It's nicer to eat when it's later and cooler. And of course food and sharing time around the table is an important family value.
I remember when I first moved to France finding the meals interminable but now I like it and I think it's nice for children to be involved (as long as they can get down from the table to play for a bit).

When we visit my family in the UK we adjust back to quite quick, early meals which seem to be over almost before the last person to be served has sat down to eat.
It's a different way of doing things and neither is wrong.

Your kids are young but things will get easier for them as they get a bit older. And in the meantime if you are able to relax and go with things, they will pick up on that vibe. They will equally pick up on your discomfort if you are struggling with the change of routine.

I'm sure it's not easy for you but it is part and parcel of a mixed culture family. You are lucky in that you live in your home country and culture with your family nearby. These moments in Italy must be very precious for your DH and his family.