Asked to give up my seat on bus

[Motnight]

On a packed London bus. A pregnant young woman has asked for my seat (only know that she is pregnant from her badge).I've said no, can she ask one of the younger more able bodied people sitting opposite or behind me? There are at least 4 people that are in their 20s / 30s and look physically fit sitting down.

She looked very shocked but just said ok. I am in my early 60s. I fell on ice a few days ago and am feeling a bit more wobbly than usual. Was I unreasonable?

I can’t stand on public transport due to disability, but when I could I’d always offer a seat to a pregnant woman… if I was 100% sure they were pregnant. The baby on board badge really helps people with that!

You say she has a badge and you didn't know until you saw it? So did she not look pregnant and weren't convinced she was?

Gosh I loved my baby on board badge...I used to do a 1h london commute every day pre covid/wfh and passed out a handful of times.
Everyone (other commuters) was always so nice when I came to though - giving me water or helping me off the train.

OP, I hope you’re fully recovered from your fall now. Some people either can’t or won’t imagine how people’s needs and abilities change with age. And unfortunately ageism is alive and well on the internet, as we find here. There is a very great difference between a sore throat and the loss of stability and confidence caused by a fall.

Being over 60, with some age-related health conditions, I am often frustrated by being slower, weaker, less energetic and with less reliable balance than in say my 30s. Inside I feel as active as ever. Luckily I rarely meet people like those here belittling OP’s wobbliness. I can only warn them that, one day, they’re likely to be that irritating wobbly old person …

She’s not thinking herself old! Just being realistic about her fitness and balance. And that’s why doctors etc start urging people over 60 to guard against falls. People’s genes make them age at different rates, so of course some are still super-fit in their 80s and others are already vulnerable in their 60s.

Lifestyle, healthy diet, exercise etc can help to some extent, but there’s no magic bullet.

All of this. My late husband was as fit as a fiddle...until he wasn't. I turned out that he'd inherited heart trouble. At the age of 63 he needed a stent put in. He recovered to an extent, but then it was downhill all the way.

I'm nearly 66 and have inherited a leg problem from Mum's side of the family. (Apparently, I'm missing every single valve in the main saphenous vein in the right leg - they just failed to form in utero.) I didn't notice any trouble until I hit my 60s. I have a diagnosis and I look fine but it's affected my mobility. Ditto the patella alta that I've had all my life, but which was only diagnosed last year.

You were not unreasonable to refuse but seem to lack insight into your own hypocrisy.

And if that's true I am happy with that 🤣

@Motnight OP, it's very difficult for anyone to have any worthwhile opinion without more information on your wobbliness and fall. How bad a fall? What's meant by wobbly? How recent was the fall? Had you been on the bus because you were unable to walk home after your tumble? Posters seem to assume wobbly meant you would have risked falling over if you'd been standing, but most people wouldn't fall. That's why we hold on. Your age is a red herring. I'm the same age and in your circumstances it wouldn't even occur to me to even think age, far less mention it. What's relevant is the fall and any underlying health issues. You talk about other passengers as more 'able bodied'. That's quite an extreme statement. We're all able bodied apart from those with real physical impairments. Is this you, or do you just mean you felt you would have undergone more discomfort or inconvenience than other passengers? Having said all that, I admire you for not being bullied into giving up your seat. You had no way of knowing whether the woman really did feel unwell,,or just felt entitled because she had a badge. It's happened to me in cinemas and theatres when people have asked me to move to let them sit with friends. After you refuse it leaves you shaken up. I'm not entirely sure the badge scheme is a good idea. It must encourage chancers.

@Idontpostmuch I'm not going to add any more detail. A thirty second interaction I had has been dissected and discussed and reviewed and judged as though I went on a killing spree!

I am happy with my decision and my response. This thread has been useful to me in helping me think about why I did initially wonder if I had been reasonable.

Your age is a red herring

I'm a similar age. Im sorry but it's ridiculous to say that age isn't relevant.

The facts are that, assuming there are no visible disabilities, people who look in their sixties are overwhelmingly more likely to have difficulty or be caused damage by travelling stood up on a moving bus than people who look in their thirties.

Very few people in their 60s would have the same strength to hold onto a bar when a bus jerks and not pull their shoulder as they have in their thirties. As fit and healthy as your thirty year old self, you can be (though most probably aren't). As strong, not so unless perhaps you were a couch potato 30 and are a gym bunny 60.

The young woman should have addressed her request to all the seated passengers. Instead, I'd bet, she picked on the person she thought was most likely to give up her seat quietly. The OP did well not to give in to the moral blackmail.

@Motnight I know what you mean. In an unrelated post I recently constantly had to mount the same defence again and again, despite having told the story fully and clearly in my initial post. Your circumstances in first post aren't at all clear, but presumably you give more details in other posts and it is SO tedious to have to keep explaining. Nobody's going to wade through hundreds of posts to keep up to speed, either. Again, well done for not being bullied. Thankfully you weren't subjected to abuse in the way that I was when I wouldn't switch seats.

I agreed completely until the last sentence. I don't think it was necessarily "moral blackmail". A more likely explanation is that the pregnant woman was intimidated or embarrassed about asking for a seat, and thought the OP was the kindest-looking person. Can't know for sure, but if that happened to me, I would assume she was asking because she thought I'd help her, and although I wouldn't have offered the seat (I'm visually impaired as well as old and I'm unsafe standing) I hope I'd have tried to help by asking generally on her behalf.

Women actually wear badges to say that they are pregnant!? This is new to me.

Of course she did well. I've already said that but you may not have read my post properly. First of all we don't know that that's what she meant by wobbly. It might not have meant she was afraid of falling. Secondly, obviously we're all less fit in our 60s than 30s but in our 60s we're not at risk of injury with a jerky bus, outside of a freak occurrence. My DH and I always go upstairs on London buses and have no trouble holding on as we make our way downstairs as our stop approaches (and yes, I am aware that we are approaching the stop, not the other way round.) Having said that, I always hold on. Handrails etc are there for a reason. A sailing rule is 'one hand for you and one for the boat,' ie always hold on when moving around a lurching craft, and it's equally relevant on dry land. Then we have ski buses. The seats quickly fill and many of us stand, wearing cumbersome ski boots and clutching skis. Yet people of all ages stand and we have no trouble holding on.

@midsomermurderer It's impossible to judge, because the OP gives so little info as to what she means by wobbly. You could be right and it could well be sore throat category ..... or it could mean substantially more.

I would expect that it’s substantially more than that. The OP said that she would normally offer her seat in these circumstances, but didn’t feel able to on this occasion. She hence clearly felt bad hence this thread. That suggests to me that she really did feel wobbly after her previous fall.

@ScribblingPixie Jo Whiley is 60 and has signed up for a half marathon in April. So yes, perhaps big difference between her and Sara, who did longer runs, but nowhere near needing to sit down on a bus.

Also easier to get out in an emergency.

I really admire Jo Whiley's fitness but she always stresses how hard she has to work for it - multiple personal trainer sessions etc and how she was becoming increasing feeble (her word) in her 50s. She's also talked about the death of friends her age from various conditions. She's battling the ageing process magnificently but the ageing process is happening. Personally, I've found balance is the thing that has deteriorated the most - and alarmingly quickly.

With me it's my bladder. Since menopause. How wonderful if over 50 yrs women could have dedicated toilets and passkeys to access them. Yes, of course Jo has to work harder than before and of course she'll have friends with conditions. The fitter you are the earlier you'll notice a difference. I've never run so I won't see that. But there's a world of difference between athletics and everyday activities. People like Jo and Sara are inspirational and should help to offset ageism but less fit 60s people can mostly still stand on buses and can still carry on much as before.

Noone has any idea whether they would need to sit down on a bus. You can run a marathon quite well with rotator cuffs that would give you agony for days or weeks if the bus jerked sharply while you were holding on to a pole or strap. Rotator cuff problems are extremely common in older women.

I read your post. I was responding specifically to the comment in bold, that age is a red herring.

Oh the dreaded balance exercises. Have you tried standing on one leg, lifting the other up at a right angle? We do it in Pilates and only 2 do it well enough to please the teacher. One is over 70 and the other is early 40s. I can do it perfectly at home if I wear shoes but in class we have to do it without shoes which is harder. I can hold it for 30 seconds without shoes but always have some wobbles. I always mean to practise daily at home, shoeless, but I keep it up for a few days and then lapse. Worth trying. Our teacher says it's about focusing on a point ahead and it does seem to help.

Interesting. Why do they fill up last? I would have thought everyone would want to be near the door for speedy exit. Hadn't realised buses filled from back. I never get buses. Walk or cycle. They should fill up last because they're priority seats, thereby leaving them for the needy, regardless of location. Did the OP state it was a priority seat? If so, then that's why the woman asked the OP rather than others, so why all the posts on how younger people should have given their seats? If it wasn't a priority seat she had a nerve asking for it.