Asked to give up my seat on bus

[Motnight]

On a packed London bus. A pregnant young woman has asked for my seat (only know that she is pregnant from her badge).I've said no, can she ask one of the younger more able bodied people sitting opposite or behind me? There are at least 4 people that are in their 20s / 30s and look physically fit sitting down.

She looked very shocked but just said ok. I am in my early 60s. I fell on ice a few days ago and am feeling a bit more wobbly than usual. Was I unreasonable?

But that's exactly what was done to OP first.

Yes?

Wow, what's with the attitude. I certainly didn't 'love' wearing one, and even when very visibly pregnant almost never got offered a seat (daily commute 30-40 mins on a crammed tube). A colleague advised to get the badge and honestly it helped especially if I positioned myself next to the priority seats.

Pregnant women, especially in third trimester are actually less stable on their feet and more prone to falling in case of a vehicle suddenly breaking (compared to themselves if they were not pregnant).
Also, a bad fall poses a very high risk for pregnancy.
Priority seats are actually marked with illustrations of pregnant woman (amongst illustrations of othe vulnerable people) - that should be a hint too.

I also don't think you were rude, and I agree that you didn't owe it to her to find a seat on her behalf. But I think it would have been nice to do it, and sometimes it's good to do something for someone else that's nice, rather than because you should. So as I said, if I'd had the presence of mind (which I might not), I would have said something jokey like, "This lady's not able to stand, which of you lovely fit and able youngsters would like to give her a seat". I'd have done that on the assumption that she was lacking in the confidence which age and experience have given me. I wouldn't have felt I owed it to her, I'd be doing it out of kindness not a sense of obligation.

"and could she ask one of the younger more able bodied passengers"

That is an assumption from OP that the other "younger" people are more able bodied.

It used to be required in the 1950s and 1960s for children to give up their seat to an adult if they were paying half price for their ticket. Some young healthy adults would say they were okay, thanks. In the scenario given by OP both passengers had need of a seat so OP wasn’t unreasonable to suggest asking someone else. The pregnant woman should really have asked someone younger but it’s very difficult just from looking at people to know if there’s a reason why they need a seat.

Of course not, but 95 is old. Early 60s isn't.

It used to be required in the 1950s and 1960s for children to give up their seat to an adult if they were paying half price for their ticket.

And I think @Anonymouseposter that the reason apparently fit & able younger people don't offer up seats nowadays is because they didn't have this drummed into them, and surveilled by the adults around them, including the bus driver & conductor.

It wasn't a bad thing: we were taught to be aware of those around us, and consider their needs, not just our own.

Even at 67, I still have the automatic reaction to offer my seat to someone who looks older or more infirm than me. @Motnight is only a few years younger, and I'd guess that she is second guessing herself (hence her OP) because of similar social training.

It's a pity her motives are treated by some with suspicion. I think had she not felt unstable, she would of course given up her seat - unlike any of the younger passengers around her who were clearly not considering the pregnant woman's needs.

I guess that my thoughts are now that both I and the pregnant woman had a need to be sitting down. But her need didn't trump mine. I just happened to have a seat and she didn't. I honestly don't know why she asked me specifically and do wonder now if people are right and thought that I would be more likely to say yes.

I don't think that I owed it to her to make her not having a seat my responsibility by asking people to move on her behalf.

You did nothing wrong or unreasonable @Motnight

And, IMO, it reflects well on you that you were worried enough about the situation that you asked a group of women what they thought. You weren't entitled or arrogant, but concerned because the young woman did need a seat.

And I suspect you are of the generation who had it drilled into them to consider others on crowded buses & trains.

I would bet my last penny that at least one of the seated younger passengers was more able bodied than me 🤣.

Thank you to everyone who has responded. Even the deleted posts! It's helped me realise that I was not unreasonable and that public transport can be really challenging for a lot of people for a lot of reasons.

And I would bet my last penny with you. It was quite clear to me, applying common sense, that you meant that if she asked she’d find a younger more able bodied person, not that you were assuming that every single young person was able bodied. And anyway I don’t think it really matters if you were making assumptions. You were still ok to stay seated in the circs.

You were definitely nbu.
I wonder if she chose you because you are another woman..hoping for a bit of empathy.

Really? So you'd just assume they're all able bodied just because they're younger? Yet you have an issue with someone assuming you were fine to move? 🙄

Apply that common sense then because you're not right now. OP was assuming every other young person was able bodied, she said so herself which I previously quoted for you but you've conveniently ignored that. Yes it does matter that OP made assumptions because she has come here annoyed that someone dared make assumptions about her and asked her to move.

As I said, OP is now unreasonable to say no but she is to assume everyone else is able bodied. She made assumptions as much as the person that asked her to move.

Maybe try some reading comprehension as well as applying common sense - although reading comprehension is seriously lacking on MN.

God OP.
You could have at least explained.

Why should the OP have to explain herself to a total stranger .

Early 60s is not 'older woman' as such, though obviously older than a 50 yr old. At 62 I frequently overtake swimmers in their 20s and 30s, admittedly in the slow lane, but I've always been a slow lane swimmer. OK, so some 60 yr olds will have health problems, but so do younger people. A lot of luck involved. The vast majority of early 60s people are a long way from old age, though some mollycoddle themselves unnecessarily.

Yes I remember being hauled onto my mum's knee in the 70s. Hated it but would have been happy to stand.

Tbh I thought the difference between whether she’s making assumptions about a probability or a certainty is so minor that it’s not worth dwelling on. Certainly not worth being as confrontational as you’re being.

And I don’t really get ‘annoyed because someone made assumptions about her’ from the OP’s posts. The main point of the thread is whether she was right to stay seated, and whether what she did and said was reasonable. What precisely was going on in her head is really by the by. I only commented on that in the first place in reply to someone else.

Why? She doesn't owe her medical or personal information to another person. When my daughter was going through a hard time medically and had to sit down, I told her this. We discussed what she could say that didn't mean she had to divulge her personal medical stuff to the whole carriage. "I'm sorry, I have a medical reason I need this seat, could you please ask someone else?" That's enough.

OP didn’t say that she had a medical condition. Or that she had recently fallen. Just ( sounds like) she berated the pregnant woman for not asking someone else.

We don't know what words she used. She didn't have to explain why she needed the seat. It's fine to say she needs it and could she please ask someone else. That's all that needs to be said.

Berated!

The hostility, misogyny, entitlement, and ageism on this thread is off the charts.

Also not a fan of the baby on board badges - I found them irrationally irritating actually. I had two pregnancies in London and travelled during both, one of which was a difficult one with a lot of pain and challenge mobilising. They just feel a bit self obsessed - I always felt like I could ask if I needed a seat and people offered in the later stages, but I’m probably being massively unreasonable.