To think, actually, hard work doesn’t pay off?

[AkaBaka]

I have had a typical millennial experience. Raised by a single mother in a council house and wanted better, so worked hard at school, went to university, graduated into a recession, built up a career, and bought a house. Am now scraping by in a similar sized house to my childhood home, raising my kids in a similar way as my mother did in terms of hobbies and lifestyle.

I have stepchildren who, much as I love them and they have many wonderful qualities, are lazy and unmotivated with little drive. I am forever telling them that hard work pays off.

But does it? For their generation, especially for non-academic kids like them, there seems little point in striving. Now I have kids of my own, I’m seeing the benefit of working fewer hours with less stress over a “successful career” that doesn’t even give me a very comfortable lifestyle.

AIBU to think hard work doesn’t pay off?

If hard work paid off every African woman I've ever known would be a billionaire.

They're not.

Thanks for the book recommendation. Yes, uni worked for me to an extent but inheritance rather than hard work alone has given some of my peers a comfortable life. I recommend Gary Stevenson’s biography, Trading Game, that explains what’s going wrong with the economy in a digestible way.

Think we’re facing declining living standards and we have a tough adjustment ahead - economic growth across the rich countries has been paltry for years and no sign of a serious uptick.

with UC I don’t think there is a huge living standard difference between many families.

What is his business, out of interest? I’m always so interested in businesses people are able to start from scratch and turn a profit. I’d love to run a business but never hit upon an idea that could work.

You own a house, which your Mum didn’t- so you are doing better than her. You have a valuable asset which you can potentially leave to your kids, and you will have a rent free property to live in during retirement. So your hard work isn’t for nothing.

One could work very hard at banging their head against a wall but it wouldn’t be very productive. Working hard it’s important but so is working smart and spotting opportunities to get ahead not just doing the same thing over and over. Like retraining into a more lucrative career, finding opportunities to be promoted, or even gaps in the market to offer your services or products directly to consumers.

Thanks for the recommendation- I actually saw Lionel Shriver at one of her talks to flog that book and bought it, but have never actually read it. I will!

I love Gary Stevenson he is a good egg.

Yes my peers who are legit comfy either got 750k from granny or mum and dad pay for holidays / prep school / their Audi. The rest are like me... just trying to leep the train on the track until their oldest starts school so childcare costd reduce slightly and praying for better times.

The book is just great shes a brilliant author.
The range of characters in it are just wonderful it really transports you.

Or, the next lot in will raise the minimum wage and stop subsidising companies by topping up people’s wages with benefits so they can keep a roof over their heads.

I have no problem with minimum wage being increased. Three hits at the same time is not clever nor does it address tax avoiding corporates.

The hardest working people I know, it hasn't paid off for no. So in losts of ways it hasn't motivated me to work the hardest 🤷‍♀️

It has nothing to do with tax avoidance.

I think working hard does pay off in the end, but as it has been for generations there is always an amount of luck, such as who you know, being in the right place at the right time.
I think it's important that even if you have a good job to keep your options open and be ready to jump at better opportunities. Of course having children and partners can make you less flexible with shifting, time etc.

Isn’t that the OPs exact point? Hard work paid off for previous generations but not millennials.

If you are working less, it is likely that working harder earlier enabled you to do so, at least that's the case for majority of people around me. So no, hard work pays off and gives you freedom.

It might be her point, but without my hard work, I'd be a LOT worse off. No home that I owned therefore paying rent until I die. Forced to work a LOT harder than I do now (I used to work that way and it would kill me now).

No, we don't have the standard of living now that we would have had 50 years ago with this level of work. But without it we'd have less than we do.

I'm from a similar position
Millennial of a single parent, uni, career. I feel cheated in many ways because my mum could afford the house she has as a single parent on minimum wage the same as what we have on two incomes above average wages. I look at the "posh" houses from my childhood and the parents were only teachers or worked at the council, just average jobs. Now for those houses you've got to have mega jobs.

This decade has been terrible for our generation, we have a shit standard of living compared to our parents generation and work harder for it.

I hear you! I worked my arse off to become the first person in my family to go to uni and I became a teacher. I was killing myself for £42k a year.

My husband left school with a few Standard Grades and did cheffing for a bit. Bounced around a few jobs and now works in the fuel industry earning around £150k a year. He does work hard (ish) and it can be a bit stressful but he can work from home when he wants and will usually take a nap on those days!

I no longer work because I home educate our daughter but also because I’m not working myself into the ground for the pittance teachers get.

We don’t have a huge house and fancy cars either. We have a lovely semi that we own, I have a car that I own outright and two horses. I honestly thought that people earning £150k were super well off. Huge home, fancy cars, unlimited spending in the Trafford Centre. I was wrong 🤣

The Government is supposed encourage conditions that grow the economy, whilst raising money and spend it sensibly and efficiently. Corporate tax avoidance in a country like the UK drains the tax base, dumping the bill on workers and small firms, whilst starving the very public services businesses rely on to function. Privatised Utilities and PE investment in the 'caring' sectors are a perfect example of this extract profit over growth mindset.

It’s not all about the corporates. The UK has many other problems including a huge productivity one (too big to unpick here without derailing the thread). The benefits and tax systems actively discourage work and progression, and it’s those 'incentives' that have nudged the OP toward the way they’re thinking.

The OP is now part of the productivity problem but it is difficult to criticise them because as a higher rate tax payer they can see the system for what it is. They work, pay tax, limit their hours because extra effort barely pays. Higher rate tax payers are being sold by Labour as selfish, 'board shouldered' and big problem that needs putting in its place, while others live off benefits and the ultra-wealthy leave or have their money tied up in such a way it is untouchable.

part of the issue with

"It’s not all about the corporates. The UK has many other problems including a huge productivity one (too big to unpick here without derailing the thread). The benefits and tax systems actively discourage work and progression"

is given the general skill base then the multi national companies, then the limited range of services etc that can be offered capitalism itself alread has casued the limits because in general you only need so many companies making x products and offering x services, and the fact that big companies can undercut all smaller companies already misshapes the market so in the end how can business survive and grow if the markets are not there to begin with.

As my 16 year old has said from
abkut the age of 13 it’s about working smarter not harder. And as I tell him it’s not what you know it’s who you know.

Work smart not hard. And anyone can do that regardless of academic ability.

I dont think hard work necessarily pays off as others have said, some of the most labour intense jobs don't pay well at all.
But if you don't work hard, you're pretty much guaranteed not to succeed, unless you're from a wealthy background.

The non-academic thing i don't really agree with. Out of all of my friends, the ones that didn't go to uni and went into non academic roles such as hairdressing, sales, manual work like plumbing are all the most successful, a lot of them are self employed and doing very very well for themselves. I was very academic growing up and earn less than a lot of my friends that weren't.

Most of my working life, I had the opportunity to do over time or I worked a second job.

I paid into a work pension

I paid into work share save schemes

Yes, I paid all my taxes on time

This enabled savings

This enabled choices

Some people prefer not to work over time, because they value their time more or had responsibilities.

Yes, I worked hard & it was worth it for me

To say that working hard has no benefits, is ridiculous !

I don't think we are disagreeing, just talking about different parts of the problem.

how can business survive and grow if the markets are not there to begin with.

Markets are not fixed. Change, creativity and innovation is needed and that takes time. What could help? New ways of approaching existing markets, creation of new markets, new skills, upskilling, better allocation of resources and so on. But none that that is possible with with a Government who have shown themselves to be lacking the skills, foresight and teeth for the job. It will be interesting to see what they do when they run out of straw men to burn.

Let the allow the thread to keep to its original question. 🙂