To think, actually, hard work doesn’t pay off?

[AkaBaka]

I have had a typical millennial experience. Raised by a single mother in a council house and wanted better, so worked hard at school, went to university, graduated into a recession, built up a career, and bought a house. Am now scraping by in a similar sized house to my childhood home, raising my kids in a similar way as my mother did in terms of hobbies and lifestyle.

I have stepchildren who, much as I love them and they have many wonderful qualities, are lazy and unmotivated with little drive. I am forever telling them that hard work pays off.

But does it? For their generation, especially for non-academic kids like them, there seems little point in striving. Now I have kids of my own, I’m seeing the benefit of working fewer hours with less stress over a “successful career” that doesn’t even give me a very comfortable lifestyle.

AIBU to think hard work doesn’t pay off?

Hard work which is smart working does pay off.

You only have to look at slavery and Victorian capitalism or many low paid but physical jobs today to know that work doesn't necessarily pay. So as a maxim it doesn't mean a lot on its own.

Sadly YANBU. These days it's possible (if not likely) that people who didn't bother striving at school or working on a career/profession, are no better off, or even worse off, than those who didn't bother! It's probably the main cause of the country's financial problems and lack of economic growth. For far too many people, there's no worthwhile benefit to striving, especially as minimum wage has increased faster than average wages, thus eroding the differentials for qualifications/management/stress etc., and likewise, benefits are forever increasing at a faster rate than average wages too!

Yes and no

The Mexicans I see working at Walmart will only ever earn $15 an hour, even though they are working very hard.

Some fortunate nepo baby could work 10% as hard and still lead an incredibly privileged life

It's not fair.

I agree in some ways. But I think it depends on where the comparision lies. Compared to the boomer gen then yes its been difficult and we've had to work harder and smarter for a similar lifestyle. I know boomers who had a similar property and lifestyle to us on one wage, we have need both for the majority of our adult lives and definitely couldn't have afforded our DC in our early 20s.

But compared to our peers its paid off. We have a home, savings and we are financially quite secure. Both STEM degrees that have given us well paid careers and options if we were laid off.

One of my childhood friends had a DC at 18 and got a council house. Shes tied to the area we grew up in. Now her DC has left home shes worried the council house may be taken from her. She works a phyically demanding job which she doesn't like, the pay is crap and she doesn't think she will be able to cope until retirement age. Without the benefit top up she struggles each month, doesn't have the heating on enough and struggles with mould. When I talk to her it is a reminder that not everyone lives in the well off bubble we currently live in.

Then you are in a fortunate position, enjoy it. With Labour at the wheel, that enjoyment might be short lived.

Hopefully the next lot in will finally make if harder for benefits to be a lifestyle.

and maybe just maybe companies will pay true wages values of what they should pay, oh wait in that case we need a new economic system due to companies already saying they cannot afford to pay the workers etc

This is fairly similar to my mother’s experience - comfortable and happy not working until her child left home when she was 37, then has struggled financially and career-wise ever since.

My SC’s mum - millennial - has a lot of financial support from family and has had children over a 15 year span (and may have more) so she’ll be at least 55 when her youngest turns 18. At which point she’ll probably be inheriting from her parents.

For SC and DC, I do think the standards of living is going to drop. For everyone, whether they’re working or on benefits.

With your own earned income, you have autonomy.

Relying on government/taxpayer funded benefits carries financial risk - governments change and who knows who we’ll get next time. 🤷‍♀️

My hard work paid off for years until it didn't and was curtailed by poor health 😢

I have had a great childhood, privileged upbringing thanks to being adopted by middle class parents, then i worked really hard at school and got a good degree.

Had a pretty good career in magazine journalist publishing before having a head injury and post concussion syndrome a decade ago 😢💔 I was then prescribed an off label antipsychotic for severe insomnia and anxiety after the post concussion syndrome, and i reacted really badly, heing permanently injured.

I now have a neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia 😢 Plus, my head injury meant I lost my ability to read and write for a while which was pretty devastating as an editor.😪

Had i not had such horrible health problems, I'm sure my life would have progressed further than it has now.

I'm extremely fortunate to have three wonderful children and a WFH job now, but I'd literally give anything to be in rude health again. All.the hard work in the world made no difference there.💔

This really resonates with me. My partner and I make good money and seemingly don't spend outlandishly, but we still end up barely breaking even each month.

We need new everthing!

Raising wages, Employer NI and business rates was an act of self harm by a government which has neither the required skills nor the teeth to do what is needed to do. They when for the easiest targets and are punishing the productive.

I think there always had to be an adjustment in standards of living to a degree because of global inequality and other countries were very poor and we were profiting from that with cheap manufacturing and their cheap labour.

But what has happened since the financial crash, and even more so since 2021 and soaring energy prices and the Tory major government policy fuck ups is that people are spending a vastly larger amount on the basis - the cost of housing, food and energy.

And that money is going to the mega rich. See how much their incomes have grown since 2008. See how much profits the supermarkets are making. See how much profit the energy companies are making. Someone is getting your money. And it's not immigrants. Nice try.

To be fair, it’s not just people who cut their hours who are pulling back and working less. Plenty of full-time workers are doing the bare minimum in their jobs to stay employed and continue getting paid. “Quiet quitting” has been a thing for years.

What job do you do in schools please? Was this linked in any way to your previous roles?

but if companies want to increase prices for x services etc then the public still needs to be able to afford to live and buy those services so the nmw has to rise otherwise how can comapnies offer services etc if no one buys them to keep the companies in profit. to a degree any company can be profitable if they can get workers for pennies on the dollar

I was similarly motivated. I was desperate to give myself financial stability and a comfortable home. Have you told them - That their parents and uncle received an inheritance that they likely won’t get?? Be straight with them..!

Good post OP and good Q. No unfortunately for many people it really doesn’t if they don’t have a hand up, hand out or inheritance. These days feels more and more like playing monopoly when the board is already more or less owned.

Working class, bright hard working renters are especially disadvantaged. Contrast that example with say (hypothetical) average intelligence, more work-shy middle class adult - if the latter is in for a decent inheritance they’ll still fare better over a lifetime no matter how hard the former works… social contract (if only you work hard enough) is broken and though there are other factors in inequality that’s a real shame.

The person who mentioned about unearned income (landlords, share’s etc) too made excellent point. Earners are disadvantaged vs asset holders… proportion of taxing income vs assets or wealth grossly out of synch.

I agree with this. Population growth in central Africa is staggering, yet lowering rapidly almost everywhere else. That kind of global population redistribution will make huge changes. The UK was built on the cheap labour of the Industrial Revolution; now other countries are having their own revolutions and using their own cheap labour at a time when our cheap labourers are contributing less than ever.

In a dystopian future I can see us moving back to a feudal type system where the land-owning elite rule and the rest (including everyone middle class, and everyone who has to work) fall in line.

I agree with you OP lots of factors at play but it is harder to progress these days.

I work in the civil service and my heart breaks for the entry level grade workers who work their socks off but because of fair and open competition are not allowed to be promoted or even be given a permanent role in the same position and department they are already doing unless they get a particular result from what is often a long and convoluted interview unrelated to the role.

Interviews are hard work for most but for some people they are impossible and I feel so sorry for the many staff we have that we lose with all their knowledge, experience and enthusiasm because of a box ticking exercise.

I understand it protects people from prejudice and favouritism but this is the other edge of the sword in times gone by these people would have been promoted down to their consistent excellent work.

I grew up in a council house with working parents in working class jobs, my parents always wanted better for me. I now love on a nice middle class village and my children go to good schools, so hard work does pay off. I'll admit my house is a lot smaller than the council house that I grew up in, but it's in a much nicer area.
Also I didn't like the implication that those who love in council houses don't work hard, they work very hard in menial jobs.

I have (as has DH) but I don’t think it’s going in. Their mum has a very positive, everything-will-be-fine attitude and ran up tens of thousands of debt when they were married… It’s not my business, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case now as well. Their mum - and their dad, to be honest - have always had a financial safety net that SC won’t have.

I can only imagine life will be considerably harder for most people in twenty years, and to be honest, I’ll be prioritising my own DC. I’m worried SC will be trapped in low-paid roles without the backup or skills to escape it.

I haven't seen anyone saying those who live in council houses don't work hard? Not everyone in a council house does a menial job. Some will have trained or been promoted and chosen not to leave.

Why are entry level workers not allowed to be promoted? Sorry, I don’t understand this at all!

Why would anyone want to work in the CS if they’ll always be stuck at the bottom?

If your mum didn't work until you were 12 and has worked minimally in low wage jobs since then, she is going to have only the state pension to live on in retirement?

She rented so no house to sell and downsize to release cash plus you still have to pay rent until death! She will have a very bleak retirement financially.

You presumably have a private pension from your career and a house that you will have paid off before retirement so minimal ongoing housing costs, plus the possibility of downsizing to release cash.

You will have a much more comfortable and fun retirement than your mother.

You are better off. You might not be as well off as you would like but you are better off than your mother financially and that gap will only grow over time as you pay off the house and accumulate more pension.

I agree with so much of what you’re saying.

Work ethic ultimately pays off over talent or qualifications. Tue winning combo is all of them. However without worth ethics the other two wouldn’t reach their potential.