To think, actually, hard work doesn’t pay off?

[AkaBaka]

I have had a typical millennial experience. Raised by a single mother in a council house and wanted better, so worked hard at school, went to university, graduated into a recession, built up a career, and bought a house. Am now scraping by in a similar sized house to my childhood home, raising my kids in a similar way as my mother did in terms of hobbies and lifestyle.

I have stepchildren who, much as I love them and they have many wonderful qualities, are lazy and unmotivated with little drive. I am forever telling them that hard work pays off.

But does it? For their generation, especially for non-academic kids like them, there seems little point in striving. Now I have kids of my own, I’m seeing the benefit of working fewer hours with less stress over a “successful career” that doesn’t even give me a very comfortable lifestyle.

AIBU to think hard work doesn’t pay off?

by saying that you mean hard work, if only those who go to uni. Hard works presents itself in all aspects. School, uni, apprenticeship etc working. There are lots of jobs and lots of ways hard work is demonstrated. Yes if you mean maybe your SC shouldn’t concentrate on education but perhaps manual work or straight into employment. It doesn’t mean they won’t be successful. Lots of friends I have worked hard for uni, PhD etc and are paid mediocre or low paid jobs. Uni/phd doesn’t automatically mean earnings are higher.

For all but the most unusual circumstances, 'hard work' (whether in education, training, or on the job) is a necessary condition for success, but not a sufficient one. Most people need a lucky break or ten as well.

YANBU as a couple I feel we Work ‘hard’ but ultimately our non working council housed peers are very similar financially tbh.
For pride reasons, it’s obviously different.
Sometimes I think more fool us for paying for our own house when it could have been given to us and we not have to work everyday to afford to run it.

I dont feel 'hard work' pays off. I've grafted at the bottom of the ladder, i couldve done those jobs all my life and i would have stayed down there. The higher i climb, the less hard i work. Its more stressful, but not hard work.

However, it doesnt pay off anyway as the goalposts keep moving. We bought our most recent house before the truss budget, with the changes in interest rates, inflation and the economy seeming to grind to a halt, we're starting to have to 'worry' and be mindful, despite not living in the SE and dragging in 115k between us! We have cars paid for in cash, 3k each, and dont go on holidays or eat out. Only one child. I dont get it.

SC’s mum and her partner work part time, get UC + child element and all other benefits for five kids + CMS for three kids + family financial top ups. Our only income is our salaries, childcare support and a bit of child benefit. They live in a cheaper COL area but our lifestyles are materially very similar - near identical house, same car, seem to have about the same disposable income though prioritised differently.

SC see this and question why we’re working so much, and it’s hard to disagree with them.

Logically I know we’re building assets, work is fulfilling and gives purpose, we’re good role models, yada yada.

This is controversial but I actually think there’s a lot to be said for being ‘average’.

I worked and studied hard (degree and Masters, gained whilst working full time to avoid debt) and am no better off than friends that didn’t do well academically.

i also wonder whether a career is all that.

Ive taken a step or two down at work and am happier being a doer and prioritising myself over work.

It matches my millennial experience pretty well and that of my peers growing up. The oldest millennials were born in 1982 and then you have xennials born around 1980ish.

I suppose it depends where you were brought up if you were brought up on a council estate you may have had a similar experience.

This is me at the moment (another reason I can’t disagree with SC, because it’s hypocritical).

I’ve cut my hours and are considering cutting further. Life is busy. It’d be nice to have more time with DC, more time to myself and more time to keep the house in order. I don’t think working full time pays off for me right now, especially as a higher rate taxpayer.

Op - you own a house.

The full benefit of that - to you, and your kids - won't become truly apparent until you've paid off the mortgage and retired I think.

But working hard so you can now not work as hard has paid off.

thats the issue, workers should be paid a proper wage for their value of what they produce,
buinesses in general want to pay as little as possible

however other prices are going up and with tech and outsourcing taking jobs etc

so in short we need a new evolution of capitalism

But from SC’s perspective, their mum has barely worked ever and she gets to have three days off a week with her kids.

It sounds exhausting thinking about your SC’s DM’s life to this extent.

That’s what happens when you’re in a blended family! You’re constantly exposed to the minutiae of another household’s way of thinking.

My concern is that SC, for a myriad of reasons, aren’t going to have the lifestyle they expect.

not when you factor in the increase in costs, everything basically is more expensive deping on location so what seems a large salary by the time you factor costs ect for that region it can be similar

thats the other thing why slave away for little rewards and thankless managers

Even if you make the right career choices, hard work prob won’t pay off.

Remember you are making a lot of money, and you are creating wealth - just not for you, it goes to your employers and the state.

You can still make a bit for you and your family if you get a helping hand from inheritance - ie you’re from home owner stock and can carry on home ownership.

Otherwise, housing benefit is the smart choice, coupled with quality of leisure decisions.

So don’t be fooled.

YANBU. Millennial here too & feel like I am going backwards. My husband & I have worked full time our entire lives in professional / corporate jobs. Fortunately he’s had some luck & is now the significant bread winner in our house hold. He has worked very hard & deserves it, but has also had some luck. You’d think that would make us more comfortable - but it all came at a time the world went mad & everything got so expensive so we feel very little benefit despite his salary more or less doubling in recent years

Had you asked me a few years ago, I thought I was doing quite well. Good job, working full time, decent wage, but for me, I have not been so fortunate as my work (public sector, but office based) can’t & doesn’t offer upwards progression unless someone leaves, which they never do! My wage is more & more worthless & I’m now much more reliant on my husband’s salary than ever before, despite years of slog & loyalty. What I’m trying to say is that the work hard = be rewarded equation doesn’t always work out, despite what some people are saying. I get up & go to work every single day, for my salary to essentially be evaporated by the cost of everything

I just find it really depressing how hard many of us are working, only for the financial burden & aspiration to have a better life slipping away. Not everyone can work up to being the top dog, but for us middle managers / middle earners who prop up these businesses, it’s pretty grim & demoralising out there. I worry what / if anything we’ll be able to pass down to our kids and what on earth they’re going to do as jobs when they’re older that will pay enough for them to even get by. Urgh

It isn't just hard work, though that's part of it. Making the right strategic choices and being lucky too.

Our generation also has to worry about where pensions will be in 30 years time. We could easily be working into our 70s.

My mistake, I misread! 3 DSC + 2 of your own. Do you claim any top ups?

We get tax-free childcare, the childcare free hours and a bit of child benefit. No UC or related freebies.

Maybe you should step back a bit and let them figure it out, or let their mum do the worrying.
You have your own kids to worry about.
I know it's hard to step back but it might be for the best, less stress for you.

This is very true, thank you!

I totally agree and it leaves me constantly feeling like I’m not doing well enough and not being a good mum. I can’t offer my kids the holidays I had, I can’t offer them the days out we had every weekend, I don’t have a detached home like I grew up in. My parents could afford for only my dad to work, we had holidays to the US and Europe at least twice per year, my dad retired at 52 and they lived in a big detached home with large garden. My dad had opened his own business which did okay but wasn’t super successful in the scheme of things. They could invest in property and rented out several homes.

I work very hard, as does my husband but both in public sector jobs which would have been lucrative years ago but are being devalued more every year. My kids share a bedroom and we are lucky to get camping once a year. Days out are considered and come from doing a side hustle for about £5 an hour over nearly every spare waking hour.

I have had to put my kids in childcare to even afford this lifestyle, they are alone for much of the holidays as I’m working and when I’m home, I’m exhausted. I’ve considered moving into another role but there’s nothing I can find which even matches my salary without spending years getting new qualifications and risking never being able to pay that back. There’s no way out and I find myself wishing my kids childhood away because I feel constant guilt over the life I give them. I know money isn’t everything but it’s far easier to say that with money. I won’t even have an early retirement to look forward to, like my dad and fully expect to be working full time til I’m 70 odd.

To make it worse, we have long family histories of dementia on both sides of the family and can foresee my parents home going to pay for care in the future. My mum was at home and able to care for her parents, thus passing their wealth on but I couldn’t afford to not work.

It’s pretty sad and I feel for those on even lower incomes than me. I’ve already told my kids that I’d recommend not having kids as it’s only going to get worse. It’s not much of a life.

I agree. I have worked hard my entire life and at points, have taken on additional freelance work to make ends meet on top of a full time job.
I think if you work, you can be lucky and be somewhere that effort is rewarded and promoted, or you can put years into a corporation with promises of progression that don't come.
I massively regret the effort I put in at some jobs. I should have left them much earlier but believed what I was promised. Hindsight is a bitch.