To think, actually, hard work doesn’t pay off?

[AkaBaka]

I have had a typical millennial experience. Raised by a single mother in a council house and wanted better, so worked hard at school, went to university, graduated into a recession, built up a career, and bought a house. Am now scraping by in a similar sized house to my childhood home, raising my kids in a similar way as my mother did in terms of hobbies and lifestyle.

I have stepchildren who, much as I love them and they have many wonderful qualities, are lazy and unmotivated with little drive. I am forever telling them that hard work pays off.

But does it? For their generation, especially for non-academic kids like them, there seems little point in striving. Now I have kids of my own, I’m seeing the benefit of working fewer hours with less stress over a “successful career” that doesn’t even give me a very comfortable lifestyle.

AIBU to think hard work doesn’t pay off?

I fear it’s my mother too. She had a very easy time whilst I was young and she didn’t work as benefits were far more generous then, but since I left home, she’s financially struggled. She’s been single most of the time and I worry for her retirement.

I had this exact same thought today. Back to work blues and I thought to myself, what am I going to get if I work harder? I’ve had multiple jobs that have no room for any progression and in my current role, a recent restructure has seen managers leave and the new positions are double the work for an extra £6k per year (after tax).

Im not working any harder in my role this year as I’ll effectively be paid the same regardless.
Im not sure hard work does get you anywhere to be honest. It’s luck and family support that wins

How old is your DM, I’m almost 57 and was a lone parent on benefits and the benefits were definitely not generous. As in I’d do a five mile walking round trip to save 50p on nappies and so on.
Did your DM buy her council house, if not then surely that’s the big difference ?

Hard work definitely created opportunities for myself

Studied & obtained good exam results at school & further education
16 first PT paid job
Moved out of home age 20
First female in my family to go to university.
I did not secure a graduate job immediately, but did some zero hours jobs
Then gained a graduate entry job with good career progression
Worked several jobs at the same time to save a deposit to buy property
Started paying into a work pension in my 20s
Mortgage free in 40s
Retired in 50s
No benefits

I now work very PT in a school & see young people struggling with concentration, studying & looking towards their futures.
I have talked with young people & informed them that my qualifications are still relevant now.
I also do several volunteer jobs in local area.

My life has not been easy, I have relocated for work, done shifts which included nights & weekends & taken up opportunities for over time, learning new skills.

My friends daughter has graduated this year with a nursing degree & has secured a job. I am so pleased for her.

I doubt your mother considered she had ‘a very easy time’ on benefits, even years ago. I’m almost 50 and grew up in considerable poverty as my parents were on benefits. I don’t believe benefits have ever been particularly generous.

DH and his ex have both had five children, and grew up with one sibling each, so yes, the potential inheritance is diluted there too.

It might be controversial but I don’t plan to leave money to my SC in my will. I’d leave some sentimental items of value, and make sure they each got 1/5 of my DH’s estate if he passed first, but my estate would be divided between my DC. (I put DH here for anonymity but we’re not actually married.)

I’m also not saving for SC or planning to contribute to their major milestones in the way I am for DC.

My mother left school with no qualifications due to poor health.
She was a housewife & worked very PT after children.
My father worked FT in a career.
No benefits (only child benefit)

One of my motivations to working hard, was to have my own money, my own independence & not be dependent on a man or benefits.

My parents wanted me to have a better life

Due to working hard, I have had many opportunities that patents never had like;

Travelled to many places
Lots of interesting hobbies
Independent

It does pay off definitely. We are mortgage free and retiring early.

I still think that ‘working’ pays more than ‘not working’ in the sense that it is still better to have a job than not. But it is true that the jobs that involve the most hard work don’t necessarily pay accordingly and some well paid jobs don’t appear, outwardly at least, to involve as much hard work. But even that is not necessarily fair and people have different views on what hard work looks like. My job isn’t manually as taxing as my husbands, I have flexibility in my job that might look like it’s not as ‘hard’ (eg work life balance, flexible hours) but in actual fact it’s very emotionally demanding. Both me and my husband work hard but it looks different for each of us. And whether you have a comfortable life or not depends on other factors as well- some people use credit cleverly, some got on the property ladder before you needed astronomical deposits, some have inherited property or large sums of money, some people are good at saving others aren’t. Even where you live can make a huge difference. And there are rewards beyond payment to having a good job that you find fulfilling. So I would never be advising my child or giving them the message that it doesn’t pay to work hard.

That's a very narrow view of hard work. If they're not academic, why can't they work hard at something else? An apprenticeship, a trade, there's plenty of money to be made that way if they want to work hard at that.

First of all. Well done in all you have accomplished. Sounds like you have put a lot of ground work in. I think the thing is, that working usually builds strength and resilience as much as anything. Without realising it, working usually makes you stronger and able to do more. This is more obvious during a longer holiday. After a few days, you would have more energy. More energy and strength than those who never pushed themselves I assume. In terms of money, you probably have a point but I think overall there is usually an obvious health benefit when you look at people who are long term poor

Your DP has 6 + children (depending on how many you have together). How are you able to afford to work less hours?

I agree, my friend’s DC is 25, he didn’t do well academically, he works in a manual job and has just bought a 2 bedroom house in South East England.

But I guess this is a big indicator for me that something else is going on- why would some need to sacrifice friendships for homework? What secondary education requires homework to the degree that you can’t socialise or maintain friendships?

Who can’t work and socialise/ maintain friendships? These things take effort but being so exhausted/ preoccupied with education or work- from a young age- that you can’t cope with both is really unusual imo and not necessarily about hard work.

It's like money - money doesn't always make you happy, but not having any will make you sad! Similarly, hard work won't always make you rich (especially as a lot of hard roles, like family carer, might not even be paid at all!), but if you don't ever work hard you will also never become rich from your earnings.

I’m not sure I understand the question? I have 3 SC and we have 2 DC together so total of 5. We each pay half the household bills. I earn enough to do that on less than full-time?

So hard work paid off for you and it would have paid off more if you hadn’t married someone who now has 5 DC?

Not sure anything you’ve described is a “typical millennial experience” though? Millennials grew up in the 1990s and 2000s. Most had parents who worked, least of all because benefits used to be pitiful and not enough to raise a family on. Most would not have grown up in a council house but a house that their parent(s) owned or privately rented.

The only thing typical from your post is the falling standards of living between when we grew up in the 1990s/2000s and now. But only in financial terms. I have a better life than my parents on almost every measure (health, freedom, hobbies/interests, friends, travel), I just have substantially less money than they did.

Your comparison to your mother uses a faulty logic. You seem to assume you’re at the same point despite all your extra effort. The fact is that if you literally did what she did right now you would be infinitely worse off (than your current status). In other words, the floor has dropped - and your hard work has saved you from dropping with it.

So he has 3 other children, 2 with you and you have 3 other children? Can you you all afford to live well enough without state help, other than family allowance and standard nursery hours you do you. If your part time salary is high enough for you to be comfortable, enjoy it.

I do agree with you as my motto has always been to work hard, but from SC’s perspective, well firstly they don’t work hard at anything or want to, and secondly they’re comparing our household (sustained by salaries) and their mum’s (sustained by benefits and family support) and wondering why they’d bother working. Their mum, stepdad, stepmum and uncle all don’t work full-time now and all live comfortably.

Unless something seriously changes their mindset, these kids aren’t going to be doctors or running their own businesses or ever earning much over minimum wage. Life seems hard now at anything under the very top centiles. If there’s little material difference between the lifestyle of a household earning £100k and one earning £10k, why bother?

Hard work and doing well also gives a feeling of pride. That is something rather good too.

It's also 'luck' that your parents died before needing to use up the whole value of their house on care home fees. My parents got no inheritance whatsoever despite both lots of grandparents owning houses. Everything was spent on elderly care.

And it's always been true that being more highly educated doesn't necessarily lead to being better off. My dad went to grammar school, university and later did another degree on OU, was a headmaster for 20 years. His brother failed 11 plus, didn't go to university but got a job working in software and is now way better off than my dad.

No… I don’t have any children other than the two I have with him.

So you are saying there is little difference between having a 10k lifestyle and a 100k one, that’s bonkers surely?