To lie to the kids' school?

[Bananasinpyjamass]

My best friend is getting married in June, it is an overseas wedding.

I have two DC, age 6 and 8, and I would like to take them with us as I have no family that can look after them. The wedding is on a Wednesday, so I would need to pull the kids out of school Tues - Thurs to fly out and attend.

My plan was to write to the school and explain the circumstances, ask that we are granted permission to remove both kids for 3 days, however a friend who works in education has advised that we just lie and say the kids are sick, that the teachers won't care even if they find out we are lying.

I am worried about lying that the kids are sick then getting into big trouble when the kids inevitably return to school and talk about flying on a plane etc.

However I am also concerned that the school will decline my request to remove them for 3 days and we will end up being fined/going to court (I am not clear on the rules and process.)

Does anyone have any advice?

YABU = Don't lie, inform the school and pay whatever fine/penalty they put up
YANBU = Lie to the school and say they are sick, it will be fine

Even if you lie I can guarantee at least one of them will tell the teacher “I’m going to aunty Jane’s wedding tomorrow”

Just word it in a way that you are telling the school they won’t be there rather than asking permission. What’s the point in asking permission if you’re going to do it anyway. If your children’s attendance is otherwise good the school will not really care although by law they will not be allowed to officially authorise the absence.

I do understand that things like this very much depend on the school but the only person I have ever known personally to be fined was the person who lied to the school about what they were doing.

I've taken my children out of school for 2 weddings, one weekday wedding and another which was an overseas wedding. Each time I have spoken to the school explained what was going on filled out the form or whatever the procedure is and it's been absolutely fine.

Having spoken to my children's school they did say that it was very awkward when parents lie as the children inevitably tell them the truth anyway and it puts the teacher/school in a difficult position.

Ah the child who is "sick" who returns looking very healthy with a tan and telling everyone about the new Spanish words they learned whilst on holiday and what the plane was like

It will probably be unauthorised but apart from a potential fine nothing will happen. Your child won't be forced to wear a special hat of shame. Just be honest with the school, wedding abroad, request the days, they will probably be unauthorised, the school send you a letter with their decision. Your children just miss 3 days of school. Look up your school website and look at their policy and your local authority for their criteria.

I took my children out of school every year for 1 day because they always had an inset day on a Friday and I rolled it into a long weekend at Centerparcs. I also worked in the school. The teachers said officially we cannot condone any time off school, unofficially have a wonderful time and I wish I could do it.

I wouldn't lie. The school can't authorise it anyway. You wont get a fine for 3 days.

Your children will tell their friends and then your known as "untrustworthy" for the rest of the time they are at the school.

Just tell them your children wont be in.

Tell them, don't tell your kids that lying is fine. The fine is for 10+ missed sessions in 10 weeks, Tue-Thurs is 6, so be careful for the 10 weeks before/after and you won't have a problem, if you do it's £80 per child I think. They can't approve this even if they want to, so tell them maybe to apologise in your message, but keep them in school for the rest of the year and all will be fine.

I work in a school office.
If you lie the kids will tell us and then it becomes a safeguarding thing. Paperwork. The Head has to discuss with you and write it up. It's a pita.
If you come in with a absence request we'd go oooh where are you going, oooh lovely, head wouldn't authorise it but would wish you lovely time and we'd ask you all about it when you got back. No fines by us but even if there were just see it as a holiday tax.
It's the vulnerable kids we are on the alert about. And if the attendance regs protect them a little then everyone else can jump through hoops.
But don't see it as a personal attack.

Definitely don't put your children in the position of lying.

Teaching your children its OK to lie to get what you want is a massive error that stores up a heap of problems for the future. Such as when they want to lie to school themselves, or they lie to you and you make a hyprocrit of yourself when you discuss why its wrong. So whatever you do, don't do that.

Yes they will. We got fined £120 for taking our daughter out of school for 1 day. It doesn't pay to be honest (100 percent attendance too) 😡

I’d have to tell the truth purely based on the fact that I hammer into my kids how we don’t lie, so how can I then tell them to go into school saying they’ve been ill and mustn’t mention the wedding/holiday.

I work in school, they won't mind your kids being away for a couple of days (as long as they aren't persistent absentees). Just tell them you are going to a wedding and you understand it will be unauthorised. It's only a couple of days so you will not be fined. Parents lie to us all the time, then the kids come in and tell us the truth! Lying is pointless!

if she doesn't answer to the school, why lie?

The 10 sessions is LA and school dependant still. All that changed was that anything 10 or over if not authorised will be fined and how the fines are set for the rolling 10 week period and further fines.
Our LA can and will fine for 1 day if the schools headteacher sets a period of unauthorised access below the 10 sessions and this is exceeded. For my child’s school this is 2 sessions but other schools in the area aren’t as strict (but equally there seems to be leeway for some parents and not others).

My friend took her daughter to Spain for a week and said she had chicken pox. She came back with a stunning tan and no one said anything 🤣 I highly doubt teachers care enough to start a confrontation about it. They just need a reason for their records. She’s a single mum and couldn’t afford the fine and the holiday I don’t blame her at all. The annoying thing is my kids are in school practically all the time, other kids are off sick for the slightest sniffle so whilst a weeks holiday would probably still see my kids attendance higher I’ll get fined. They need to have a re-think.

The friend BU is not the bride/groom but the one telling you to involve your children in a lie.

I think it depends on the child and as I said earlier, while no one said anything I expect it was noted and comment on by staff.

One boy in my class went on holiday but mum rang it in as illness. Like your friend, he came back with an amazing tan. As with all children who have been off unwell the teacher said to them nice to see you back, I hope you are feeling better now and the boy replied in a robot voice I have been sick....before bursting into tears and telling us he had been on holiday but mum had told him he wasn't allowed to say.
Its not really fair if you choose to do this as a parent to then expect the child to continue the lie.

I don't think the parents think you are stupid.

Parents know, as @Buscobel put it that
Schools don’t have policies to annoy parents or make things difficult. They don’t set the targets for attendance. They’re just doing what they’ve been told they must do.

If the school doesn't have right to authorise perfectly valid family reasons for a few days, it just makes the whole explaining of reasons rather pointless.
Parents aren't trying to lie to you, parents are trying to lie to that abstract authority with their stupid box ticking exercise and, rightly or wrongly, assume that putting there "sick" will give them the least official bad points.

And, I don't blame them, while school attendance is important and regular absences might be a sign of a safeguarding problem, families taking their children out for a few active days aren't the reason, they are the hostages of unreasonable rules here.

I think it's worth asking. A wedding is quite often seen as a 'religious celebration' and they will quite often authorise.
Not sure given it's your friend rather than family. Can you say it's their god parent or something?

I think because a lot of HTs aren’t in agreement with the fines, if you can give ‘plausible deniability’ some schools will absolutely turn a blind eye to kids inevitable sharing of their holidays.

Other schools are fully bought into the attendance ideology and would be more unimpressed (but likely to be unimpressed either way so 🤷‍♀️).

On balance, I would just call in sick for them.

"Those who are saying my friend is BU - she does not have kids and wanted a discounted mid-week, term-time destination wedding, I cannot fault her this."

Yes, you can fault her for this. What she wants is to minimise the cost of her wedding to HER, by passing the costs onto her GUESTS. Such as yourself.

To be blunt - an invitation is a request, not a command. And this request is so inconvenient to yourself, I'm surprised you're prepared to jump through so many hoops to accede to it.

Why do people post on here asking if lying is fine? Of course lying isn't fine. What has happened to people's moral compass? Tell the truth and take the consequences.

I still find the whole idea of fining parents (and per child) over attendance insane. Parents shouldn't need to contort themselves like this.

Someone on here had a thread a few months ago where I think they had said their kid was sick, but on holiday, but when she gave the school her kids passport for something else she thinks they saw a stamp from the holiday and reported it to someone or other. I can't remember all the details but the overwhelming response on that thread was 'you shouldn't have lied'. Very little empathy for how parents are backed into a corner with their own children.

Probably best to be honest, and just go!

This. Schools are absolutely fine about parents taking kids out of school who have good attendance otherwise. Holidays or a few days off are fine and nobody bats an eyelid. It won't count as an authorised absence but you will not be fined for it either. The local authority only starts issuing fines if the absence across the year has been excessive and disproportionate or the students have had many absences in the academic year already.

Most local authorities only start fining after a certain number of unauthorised absence days and these are a lot more than people think. Just tell the school the truth. It won't be authorised but it's also very unlikely you'll be fined either if your kids have good attendance otherwise.