I'm going mad. Maybe

[AnonyMouse33]

Husband went to friends house and got in hot tub and was joined by three women. All above board but I'm upset that it's inappropriate and obviously I wasnt there.
For context, we're a Christian family and this just got to me, as I would never put myself in this position I would be so worried that it would be insensitive and inappropriate. He doesn't agree with me at all, though he's apologised.

Is this unreasonable? He said most people would be totally fine with it?

You don't sound like the superior wit you seem to think you do. Just disrespectful and obnoxious

I was in the sauna at the gym last week with six men who were only wearing trunks. It was a bit too crowded - which I wasn’t comfortable with. But it was all completely above board! I’m in there often. I’m also pretty prudish and live alone.

I suppose if you have five kids you have a lot of sex. Or have done!

I wouldn't be wearing a bikini, I'd be in a swimsuit because it's January.

And I'd be very comfortable in a hot tub with a group of friends of either sex because it's just a nice warm water place to relax and not a bloody orgy.

Hot tubs aren't inherently sleazy or sex-adjacent. They are small pools to sit and chat in.

Wow

For context my Pastor will not travel alone in a car with another women that is not his wife so i do feel that christian martial boundaries should be higher. I wonder if in this instance that there are a few people around and it may have not known that he would be the only male in the hot tub it is not too much of a concern. I would talk to him and pray over it together, try and forgive and move on. Try not to let offence take a root here.

They're your standards not ours. We can't get upset on your behalf.

If it upset you then perhaps you need to discuss with him why and compromise for the future.

Wow that pastor sounds predatory. He can’t be trusted to sit in a car with a woman who isn’t his wife without some funny business? He sounds oversexed. Men and women should be able to be alone together without there being anything sexual. Because women need to CONSENT!

OP is correct. When we state we are Christians we are not saying we are better than everyone else - we are stating we have realised our innate sinfulness and through the Grace of God and the blood of Jesus Christ we are now redeemed and are moving forward towards sanctification. We aren't perfect by any means and get tempted to sin just like everyone else.

Are our morals different? Yes they should be. We are called to a higher standard. This puts us at odds with secular society as you can plainly see by some of the replies in this thread. This doesn't mean we think we're better, we are attempting to live Christ-like lives in a sinful world. That means we end up facing dilemmas and situations such as the OP and her DH and it can mean life is more difficult as we attempt to resolve these situations in a way that upholds our Christian values. As a pp said, 'there's nothing in the Bible about Jesus and hot tubs' - no there isn't, but there are moral values about modesty.

You will find amoral and abusive men (and women!) everywhere, despite what their 'faith' may be (I highly doubt those people are actually saved Christians, or if they are then they've fallen spectacularly). This is highly problematic for the Church, but don't judge all Christians by their abhorrent behaviour.

While I would have been unhappy if my (late) husband had got into a private hot tub with strange women, this does strike me as one of those "OP aibu?, MN yes, OP no I am not" posts.
OP this is not about what anyone else thinks or expects. Its what YOU think or expect and whether you and your husband agree on those expectations.

What do you mean “wow”? It was an ignorant post and after an entire thread of people mocking her beliefs I don’t blame the OP for getting frustrated.

The OP’s faith is relevant because as Christians we believe we’re held to a higher moral standard. That doesn’t make us “better” than others - practically the whole point in being a Christian is understanding that we’re NOT good enough.

So all non-Christians are sinning all the time? I’m an atheist and I live like a nun without the praying. Maybe the people who need all these rules are rather sexually rampant?

I don't think there is anything immoral about a man being in a hot tub with females. Neither would I think that me being in a car with a male who isn't a relative is immoral. I find both ideas utterly crazy.

I mean that is actually just quite insulting. You've literally just written down that you think non-Christians act less morally than Christians.

Is that what you meant?

I can hold myself to a sufficiently high moral standard without being a Christian, and I think most other non-Christians would think the same.

Sure - but it’s perfectly possible to have a strict moral code as a Jew or Muslim or atheist too. There’s nothing inherently different about being Christian. I don’t know a lot about other religions but the 3 religions here all have a lot of similarities about men and women and modesty (mostly around what women should or shouldn’t wear as opposed to the men but I digress)

My religious (Jewish) family wouldn’t be alone with a member of the opposite sex either.

Anyway - I think the person above who said that all that’s needed here is a conversation that this is something the OP doesn’t think falls within the boundaries they should have in their marriage. And then they agree to not do this in future, or compromise or whatever. It’s fine to have boundaries that work for you.

The natural inclination of all unbelievers is towards sinfulness and away from God. This is what a fallen nature is. It doesn't necessarily mean you are having or trying to have or thinking about sex 24/7, there are plenty of other sins to occupy oneself with.

Yes, and I didn't intend to disrespect other faiths with my reply. As OP is Christian the discussion has been around that faith, so apologies for that.

OP definitely needs to have another calm conversation with her DH about those boundaries for any future situations, I agree.

That is pretty offensive to everyone else. I am not naturally inclined to “sin” - your definition BTW. I’ve seen religion for what it is - a way for men to keep women down! It’s as if you have never heard of sexual abuse happening within churches. It happens often. Your sky fairy does not make you superior.

I do not worship a 'sky fairy' - I don't believe in such beings. Of course I've heard of abuse in churches, did you not read my last paragraph?

I presume you have moral values yourself? What do you think if you or others fall short of those? How easy is it for you to uphold your own moral values?

Yes, I have a conscience!

😂😂"Thou shalt not enter hot tubs in the presence of bare naked ladies" So sayeth the Lord.

Isn't that about protecting himself and his reputation as a community leader too - like how Scout leaders aren't supposed to ever be alone (out of sight) with a young person.
Vicars and priests do traditionally often attract 'hangers-on' (even if this is more a needy fan relationship than a sexual one), good to have strong boundaries to point to, to protect his personal space.

You're very spikey with every comment that doesn't agree with you.

Not everyone in life will agree with you, like your husband. If you don't like him sharing a hotub with other women then say so but you cannot control him.

He can do what he wants as can you.

In this context the women are entirely seen as sex objects. Who were they? His aunties? Teenage kids of other “gathering” attendees? Other men’s wives? Single women who are apparently desperate to snare your husband? Whoever they were he shouldn’t be immediately sinful for being in their presence.

The rule is there because of abuse that has happened in the past, unfortunately.

Are you saying the vicars have fan girls?? More like some predators have exploited the vulnerability of followers. A moral man in such a position would not take advantage.

No I’ve said we are HELD by God to a higher standard. That doesn’t mean we ARE better. Do you not see the difference? If I’m professing one thing and my conduct contradicts that, then that makes me a hypocrite.

I know many non-Christians who are probably nicer and kinder than me - that should make me ashamed and make me want to strive to lead a more Godly life.

And what is a “sufficiently high moral standard?” Who decides what a “sufficiently high moral standard” is?

Being perfect already you obviously don’t need Jesus, so crack on. For those of us who realise we don’t meet God’s perfect standard thankfully we have a Saviour.