Men still have the control, how is this ok?

[Unad11]

I have had various experiences with men, some good and some bad. But the reality of how men still control the world really hit me when I had DD.

DP left me during pregnancy after a four year relationship. Things that followed…

Called CMS and was spoken to like shit, had to call constantly to get anything done. Told they would ‘do what they can’ (spoiler, that’s very little).

When he was forced to pay, he did. But he can have a 24% increase in his pay during the year which isn’t taken into account for any increase. He did actually have a 20% increase and he pocketed it all without giving any extra towards DD’s life… this despite the fact that the nursery bill alone was more than double his contribution from CMS.

When he had more involvement in her life it was on his terms. He was often late. I did all the hard yards of keeping her up to date with vaccinations and enrolling her in and paying for nursery.

Then I had the role of being there 24/7 if she ever needed collecting from nursery. It was me who had to ask favours of my manager, me whose career was affected, me who shouldered the financial penalties.

And the real kicker? If you dare to talk about money, you’re a gold digger, you’re all about money or you’re reminded that the money is for DD and not ‘for you.’ That’s ignoring the fact that the lovely gentlemen paying the maintenance is receiving thousands from you in unpaid childcare… if he isn’t parenting 50% of the time (ie his share) he’d have to pay a nanny… but oh wait, he doesn’t because the woman is expected to do it all.

And the next kicker… if you dare to complain that you’re doing it all, don’t you WANT to look after your DD? What a terrible mother you are!

The reality is, money matters. Money protects, money gives you control. Men need to pay up, properly. Men and women need to stop shaming women for speaking up.

I also want to add to my rant that I think nursery is the only place where you hear people talking about it like it’s a charity… (when they’re not)… if it closes or there’s a shut down, no you shouldn’t have to pay to ‘ensure the staff are paid.’ Only in a childcare context is it that the women are supposed to be grateful for the service being provided in return for huge fees. Imagine a gym closing for a day and people (men) being told shut up and pay because the staff still need paying. Women are always supposed to be grateful, we are outsourcing our job to earn money, when that’s shameful remember (..!!) And yes I know the ts and cs often say you must pay when there’s closures but that’s not the point, the point is it’s the only industry where that’s supposed to be accepted. Women you must be grateful even if you are paying through the nose for the childcare.

I sound bitter and twisted (because I am) but I am (very luckily) financially secure and mostly protected from this shit these days (DD now 5).

But… I want to help make changes. I don’t know where to start. Any ideas thoughts or comments very much welcome. And I’m bracing myself for the usual misogynistic posts too, of course.

It’s not OK.

I wish I knew how to change it. Unless we’re absolutely minted to begin with, or have tons of community and family support, when we have children with men we largely put ourselves at the mercy of men.

I didn’t really, fully get this until I had a child myself.

I think women whose partners are fully on board and committed parents still don’t really get how much power they have to completely fuck shit up if they feel like it one day, in the throes of a midlife crisis. That they could just walk out and never pay any child support and pretty much get away with it Scot free.

I’m sorry it is so incredibly tough.

@VoltaireMittyDream yes that’s exactly it… they have the power even if it’s not utilised. When ex DP wants to be a decent father he’s brilliant, no criticisms… but it’s just when it suits. And that’s the point, they have the control.

Money is the only thing that protects you and I wish this was at the forefront of every woman’s mind.

@VoltaireMittyDream i always feel with my ex that i‘m the insurance policy. He tells me if he’s away on a work conference.. no problem
for him as i’m there for DD. He tells me when he’s working late.. no problem as I’m there for DD. And so it goes on.

I don't have kids or husband but often see, a male & female go for a driving job & despite both having the same experience & qualifications it will be the male who gets the job. (Unless you are blonde size 8, 20years old and "one of the lads")
Or how womem couldn't vote, own a house, I even remember being berated by my landlady in the 90s for a male staying over,
I'm not sore if will ever change. However I do see, or used to have several female neighbours, not one but several, who had children, divorced when children were older & are now happily in relationships with other women, DH being a bad memory of the past.
Not sure if we're ever gonna achieve equality unfortunately.

I totally agree with you. My husband is absolutely an equal parent but I have close friends whose ex pays just over £50 a month for his kids because it's deemed he can't pay more... But kids cost more than that. What if my friend said, "fair, ill also chuck in £50 plus the child benefit" kids will be able to eat, be clothed, have a roof over their head, childcare, toys, for just under £300? Also I'll only see them when I fancy and the rest of the time will assume someone else will pick up the pieces. She would rightly be arrested.

If I ran the world I would have an independent, charity commission look at the actual cost of raising a child - including childcare so both parents can work full time, additional bills, food, school contributions etc. just honest to god the additional you would pay single vs with a kid. And that is then the amount both parents have to pay. If the absent parent can't pay it because they are on benefits or playing silly buggers with self employment the government pays the amount and then deducts it from the absent parent until its paid off so rather than have your benefits docked for 18years it's until it's paid off. If self employed they are actually chased for it properly as the money is owed to the gov. This way the child doesn't suffer in the power games.

Also, lots more training and money to support family courts and parents in difficult situations so parents who are wrongly denied access to the children can be supported quickly with no nonsense enforcement but also those who are using the kids as weapons and are abusive will be found out.

In my case I feel I have taken on 95% of the responsibility for my children throughout their lives. They are now nearly 19 and 17. Their dad does the absolute bare minimum. Now he insists on seeing the 16 year old when it suits him rather than when it suits our son when our son is actually really busy with sixth form, a part time job, volunteering etc. He should work around our son but he won’t.

He also never says how great they are to them but he always finds something to criticise. I am clearly bias but they are great teenagers so he should be grateful not moan at them.

They have turned out amazing and that is not due to him and his very limited input. It’s due to me and due to themselves. It’s me they ring with their news good and bad. It’s me they are choosing to go on holiday with next year not their dad who “shouts at them” for no reason on holiday. He has taken them on 2 holidays in their lives. Both a disaster due to his behaviour.

Their dad does have them every other Christmas as he thinks it’s “his right”. I dont argue it as I think they get so little from him every other Christmas is the least he can do plus some weekends. He doesn’t have their backs, he doesn’t help them. He has actually told them he didn’t get any help financially so why should he help them. That is a lie! His dad taught him to drive and brought him a car and gave him a deposit for a flat after he left me and the kids. Now he refuses to give our children any help with anything and openly tells them that, which I think is embarrassing for him.

So he will be off on his cruise in Feb whilst I’m on a city break with our 2 boys. I would choose the time with the boys over everything.

So if anyone has “won” it’s me but if anyone has been screwed over financially it’s also me. Our youngest wants to do a 5 year degree in 2027. I’m not sure whether he will get the grades or not but if he does it will be me driving him there, getting him what he needs for uni and paying his rent. His dad won’t help at all even though he earns considerably more than me. It’s a medical degree and this child has wanted to be a dr since he was a 5 year old so it’s. It like this is a surprise or we haven’t had time to prepare/ save. I have. His dad hasn’t. He just doesn’t think the boys or their future or their education are his responsibility or problem.

I think the issue is that no one ever says to him “why do you treat your children so badly?” Society sees the bare minimum as ok so his every other weekend and bare minimum is seen as “amazing”. One of my good friends actually said to me once isn’t he good as he still sees them at weekends.

The children know who has been there for them. My eldest knows I taught him to drive and took him to get his first car (and paid for it). I helped him get his first job which is now his career. I took him to his interview and his graduation etc. Dad has done nothing for him apart from see him every other weekend.

So it is a very, very unfair system. Our youngest is going on a very expensive school trip in November. The only abroad school trip he has ever gone on. He is working so hard this year I think he deserves it (I actually think all children should have the chance to go on school trips but I know it’s not always possible). Anyway his dad won’t pay anything towards it or even give him his spending money. My mum was going to give him his spending money to help me as I was paying for the trip by myself but she has recently passed away. But knowing gran is no longer around he still says he isn’t going to give out son his spending money for a once in a lifetime trip. (I will give him the money and he has a part time job anyway it would just be a nice gesture to say here is £100 for your holiday).
Also, as the children were growing up a lot of their clothes went missing at dad’s house eg he was selling them on vinted. Shameful. Now the kids just wear old clothes if they ever go and see him. My youngest thinks his dad has stolen a pair of his Calvin klein boxer shorts he put in the wash when he was last there. I would be mortified if my children thought I was stealing their things. (I do eat their chocolate actually but I replace it.) Their dad has no shame. He earns a lot of money.

People need to speak up more. Eg “oh your child is in nursery what an expensive time.” If they say no my ex pays for it then people should make comments like “wow that’s awful.”
I would/ do make comments if needed.

I knew this from very early age, this is why waited and waited and waited to find a man who is easy going, liberal, decent and generous to have a child with. Basically cheated the patriarchy but it costed me many years being single

Women have to stop copulating so easily with all the abusive men out there, but then many women won't have children so.....where is the wisdom. I knew that waiting for so long and being so choosy might have left me single and child-free...even so. I did it my way

@herefortheclicks I agree being more choosy may reduce the risk of being subjected to the awful behaviour of many men. But your post is part of the problem, the fault isn’t with women. The fault is with the men. Men are allowed to get away with the bare minimum while women pick up the pieces. Whether or not they utilise that control is really a separate matter.

The man you have ended up with has much more control than you, you are just lucky you haven’t experienced that play out in practice. And I hope you never do.

Mags1001 DM recalled when she wanted to buy a washing machine .She was working ,and was told No. a man had to act as a Guarantor. Dad had died and she was a widow . Women were seen then as second class citizens . only a week or so ago on here, A lady had a child with severe needs .including violence towards her and her DD.She and her DH were divorcing, and he "was unable" to help her parent due to working as a Doctor !

I agree. In my opinion, the issue is a lot of women are near on desperate to have a child/children. This makes them vulnerable in many ways and men know this. Of course it shouldn’t be this way, but sadly, it is.

@Unad11you are absolutely correct and I’m angry about it too. Everyday I rage that my child’s father does what the hell he wants when he wants and has a disposable income and enjoys life but on social media and to his friends and family he is an amazing father.
He sees his child for a couple of hours a week, pays bare minimum but acts like I’m bleeding him dry when I everything I do is for my child. I go without for them.
I absolutely do not want another man in my life as long as live.
sorry for the rant but I hear you, it’s still a man’s world but I try as hard as I can everyday to fight it!!

Well I feel for you @herefortheclicks . The other side of the coin is Men have no real rights with their kids. And I've been through that, always paid, had to do so the traveling, and after 13 years she moved away and he didn't want to come see me. I could go into detail but don't want to derail your post. Just very frustrating as a Man too. I wonder if it's not really about one gender and rather about having to put up with shitty people.

If I had my way, feckless fathers would be publicly shamed for not paying for their children, it would be a massive deal in society.

I don’t know why the government don’t do something drastic to make them pay, these “men” cost the country millions of pounds, probably more.

There are so many single mums trying to work and having to claim benefits on top, getting into debt, children growing up in poverty and being disadvantaged from not getting any or enough child maintenance from the father. It all negatively impacts society as well as the individual families.

I suspect this is a key reason for the falling birth rate. Having children disproportionately impacts women and fewer and fewer women are falling for it.

Lots of men are completely shit, I agree, but it fucking pains me to read on MN (and see IRL) women continuing to have children with piece of shit men. Threads that describe years and years of the most diabolical male behaviour followed by “I’m currently pregnant with our third”. WHY?

I’m lucky enough to have one of the good ones when it comes to DH but I think you’d be hard pressed to go through pregnancy, labour and the early childhood years without realising why we still need feminism. It’s a massive shock to the system.

And me. No abusive men have ever been allowed into my life.🤷‍♀️

You chose an arsehole to have a kid with 🤷
While I fully appreciate societal advantages for men in general, and commiserate with you for your experiences, one arsehole doesn't make a general rule of thumb, and many people will have had better outcomes

My child’s father now has 4 children to 4 different women and doesn’t pay for any of them. How is he allowed to get away with that? He works low paid jobs, he’s in and out of work and goes “self employed” every now and then to avoid CMS. He’s an absolute scumbag but society doesn’t think so! He should be made to work like a dog to pay for all these kids he keeps having!

I would love to have another child but it’s been such a struggle trying to provide for the one I already have that it absolutely terrifies me to think I could end up in the same situation but with two children. I can’t see myself ever trusting a man enough to have a child with him unless I either win the lottery or the man gives me a lump sum in advance to cover the cost of raising the child in case we split up.

@SBGM247 you do have rights. You are free to apply to court to assert them, did you do that?

@Eudaimonia11 i feel exactly the same about a second child

@InterestedDad37 its about the fact men have the control. All men have this control whether they choose to abuse by virtue of it or not.

Amen! Yes, can totally relate to all of this. One thing I wish we could import from the US is their zero tolerance and repercussions for fucking deadbeat dads. Take away their driving licences and jail them

OK, I won't argue with that. Hope things work out for you.

I vividly remember my auntie being a single mother, her son (my cousin) being about 5, sitting with his little backpack on waiting for his dad, who didn't show up yet again and my auntie having to deal with the fallout of that. While at the same time trying to stretch the last of her money for his packed lunches for the coming week. His father done absolutely fuck all. My cousin is in his mid-30s now and I still see that wee boy.

That is the general pattern. Yes there are exceptions but the general pattern in Western society is men walking away from their children, failing to support their children, and the mother trying to keep their heads above water.

My dad - absent. My step-dad - abusive and then would only pay intermittent child maintenance directly to his 12 year old daughter as if her mum didn't need to house, feed and clothe her. My other cousin, playing the proud father with his daughter while never acknowledging his other daughter or paying anything for her care.

My daughter's dad could do this at any time. He won't, but he could. His dad did.