Men still have the control, how is this ok?

[Unad11]

I have had various experiences with men, some good and some bad. But the reality of how men still control the world really hit me when I had DD.

DP left me during pregnancy after a four year relationship. Things that followed…

Called CMS and was spoken to like shit, had to call constantly to get anything done. Told they would ‘do what they can’ (spoiler, that’s very little).

When he was forced to pay, he did. But he can have a 24% increase in his pay during the year which isn’t taken into account for any increase. He did actually have a 20% increase and he pocketed it all without giving any extra towards DD’s life… this despite the fact that the nursery bill alone was more than double his contribution from CMS.

When he had more involvement in her life it was on his terms. He was often late. I did all the hard yards of keeping her up to date with vaccinations and enrolling her in and paying for nursery.

Then I had the role of being there 24/7 if she ever needed collecting from nursery. It was me who had to ask favours of my manager, me whose career was affected, me who shouldered the financial penalties.

And the real kicker? If you dare to talk about money, you’re a gold digger, you’re all about money or you’re reminded that the money is for DD and not ‘for you.’ That’s ignoring the fact that the lovely gentlemen paying the maintenance is receiving thousands from you in unpaid childcare… if he isn’t parenting 50% of the time (ie his share) he’d have to pay a nanny… but oh wait, he doesn’t because the woman is expected to do it all.

And the next kicker… if you dare to complain that you’re doing it all, don’t you WANT to look after your DD? What a terrible mother you are!

The reality is, money matters. Money protects, money gives you control. Men need to pay up, properly. Men and women need to stop shaming women for speaking up.

I also want to add to my rant that I think nursery is the only place where you hear people talking about it like it’s a charity… (when they’re not)… if it closes or there’s a shut down, no you shouldn’t have to pay to ‘ensure the staff are paid.’ Only in a childcare context is it that the women are supposed to be grateful for the service being provided in return for huge fees. Imagine a gym closing for a day and people (men) being told shut up and pay because the staff still need paying. Women are always supposed to be grateful, we are outsourcing our job to earn money, when that’s shameful remember (..!!) And yes I know the ts and cs often say you must pay when there’s closures but that’s not the point, the point is it’s the only industry where that’s supposed to be accepted. Women you must be grateful even if you are paying through the nose for the childcare.

I sound bitter and twisted (because I am) but I am (very luckily) financially secure and mostly protected from this shit these days (DD now 5).

But… I want to help make changes. I don’t know where to start. Any ideas thoughts or comments very much welcome. And I’m bracing myself for the usual misogynistic posts too, of course.

@herefortheclicks but do women not let men get away with it. We never talk about the men who pick up the slack, or the single dads who are the main parent and the women who don't do as much, have opted not to do as much.

Most abusers are lovely until they've got you trapped, btw. Pregnancy is a known time when abuse starts. So I feel your post is a little bit smug. Women aren't deciding to marry and have kids with someone who's always been awful to them. Abusers lay a trap.

Just fyi.

Yes, yes.
I calculated this, if you want.

Why do you “make the right noises”? I’d be letting him know I think he’s a selfish arsehole!

Er….I’m afraid I don’t know any of those?!

@Dollyfloss i do.

@Flibbertyfloo YES!!! That would be amazing and life changing for so many families.

I work like a dog to provide for my child, I don’t have the option of not doing that so why should the father?

One excuse for not paying child maintenance was “I’ve just changed my job so I won’t get paid for another month” - it was funny because I had also just changed my job so I was in the exact same situation. Rent was due and I had to buy school uniform and pay for school bus ticket and school lunches as well as other stuff like food, council tax, etc. I should have said “oh same babes, we’ll just not feed, house, or clothe her, and we won’t send her to school til we get paid”. Instead, I did what any decent parent would do and pulled the money out of my backside - put it all on a credit card then worked extra hours at my second job to try to pay it off.

Why do men get to opt out so easily?

”But I don’t earn enough” neither do I so I have to work two jobs and I still don’t have enough because you don’t pay even a basic contribution never mind half of what it actually costs, you absolute twat! I do whatever I need to do to pay for everything.

You’re definitely in the minority.

In my 45 years and all the many, many people I’ve known in that time, married, single, divorced whatever - plus all the people that the people I know, know and we talk about - I have never known or heard of one man who has been the main carer for his children.

How many men do you know in this situation and how many women who do the same and get absolutely no congratulations for it? In fact, no one even notices?

Every single woman I know and have ever known, married or divorced, who has dc’s is the main carer for them.

It’s not men, it’s the man you had a child with. Not all men are like that

I didn't read past the point of you having a child with a man who couldn't commit to you after 4 years.

Women need to stop A) Having kids without marriage and B) Stop hanging around men for years and years without commitment. Men do not need years to figure if they want to marry you!!!!!

My ex left after 19 years and 2 dc, for most of the marriage he was a good dad and did his share and was very supportive. My mum and my aunties all loved him as he was a very hands on dad unlike most men of their generation.
Then he had an affair and fucked off half way around the world leaving me very much a single parent although he did pay maintainence.
He had all the power in our split being a bigger earner than me and also paying very little tax in the country he was living in. He basically dictated all the terms of the financial agreement and being I was in Scotland he was allowed to do this. I was so fucking angry about it and his ability to dip in and out of dc's life when he felt like it for a long time. I got told I should be thankful he paid maintainence. But that was the very least he could do, these days when the boys (rarely) visit he acts as though he is the injured party and goes on about how much money he gave me. I hear you op its enraging.

I once read or heard a comment along the lines of ‘the world will never be equal until men can have [birth] children, too’ and I often think of it.

Shhhh don't speak so much truth all at once😅

OP is lumping all men with a someone who dragged her along for 4 years, had a kid with him, and is shocked that her life has turned out the way it has.

But its the fault of the entire opposite gender!

Yes women it seems cant think, how many times on here alone are there examples of women letting men do all their thinking for them so they then sit back and complain about it afterwards?

So don't put yourself at the mercy of sub-par, financially insolvent losers without even a marriage certificate to protect you. I cannot fathom why women put their bodies, financial security and careers at risk, all for the sake of these unworthy losers. Many of them even give their babies the father's surname. These women are not putting their babies at the forefront of their decision to continue their pregnancies if they know that the father-to-be is likely to be deadbeat and not step up.

Motherhood is revered and glorified until the baby is actually here, after that, nobody cares. These men see the women as conquered and an inconvenience. Far better to be childfree and not hand the control over to them.

I am shocked at some of these comments. "Women should stop...with crap men".
You only need to read the lots of posts of MN to know that we haven't copulated with shit men, in my case a childhood sweetheart, man who I had known since the age of 4, knew his family, been in the forces, good career, married 5 years before having children (to feel confident we were secure etc, etc. He had an affair whilst I was pregnant. Then moved job every year basically so CS couldn't catch up with him. Took years to get any contribution financially. He is still completely crap parent to grown kids, he went on to have others.
We don't have crystal balls, but it needs to be made more difficult for men to walk away without consequences and also women should not listen when a bloke runs down previous partners and realise, they will repeat and repeat ( I have had conversations with his subsequent partners)

Yes, absolutely.

There should be zero tolerance here of men just leaving women to sort out the childcare, whether doing it or paying for it.

Absolutely. I’ve got 2 close friends who are single parents and I can’t believe that we as a society let men get away with not supporting their kids!

With one of my friends I’ve provided more clothes for her son than his own father - how is he not embarrassed by that? I also give her kids pocket money for their occasional holidays - their deadbeat father can’t even manage that. And yet when my friend is honest with CMS about how many overnights he does (not many) the deadbeat moans that she’s only bothers about money.

If I was PM this would be my top priority. If we made fathers pay for their kids then we’d lift so many kids out of poverty.

The CMS was designed by an all male Tory government to remove pressure on the state onto parents - sorry the mother. Only a co ordinated campaign will change policy and this labour government is about the only chance we will have if reform come in next.

It's a difficult one really. I also see lots of men complaining that we get priority in family court and custody cases etc. I think things need to change on both sides.

I think there’s a general expectation for women to be all caring and take responsibility. Men leave and it’s ok, women leave their kids and they’re awful.
These opinions are even ingrained in TV, I was watching a fictional programme with a neglected child, someone visited and both parents were addicts and not caring for the child. The person visiting said “what kind of mother are you who doesn’t bath her own son”. Yet nothing was said to the Dad.

On the flip side men do also get a rough deal. When I was a teacher I had a girl in my class who had autism. It was just her and Dad as mother left them. He told me people judged him for not working and called him a benefit scrounger. Clearly he couldn’t work, he was a single parent for a high needs child and I wondered if a woman in the same situation would get the same judgment.

I just assume that the vast majority of men don't want kids. I mean leaving you during pregnancy doesn't scream family man. Did he say he wanted children? Not having kids is always an option...

So there is a problem in the relationship and if there are children this will have an effect on the children but then men are called out if they leave? So men have to stay, how is this healthy for the children?

then if they have permission to leave they cant have 50/50 as women dont see that as suits them and of course it means they wont get money off them, so men have to see the children whichever way the mother decides?

But how much time an effort did either parent put towards having children in the first place, but of course it is always the children who suffer and then parents go on to have more children with other partners so satisfy their own needs

women (and men) have choices children dont, percentage wise how much decisions are made that is best for the women not the children? we hear constantly I need to have a child my life is over if I dont successfully TTC but once the children are born the need is fulfilled and the children seem to be there to fix whatever need parents decide

It's a rubbish option if you have a deep desire to have kids though, which the majority of women do.

But a child is not an accessory or a possession people can convince themselves they care and love their children but how many want the cute baby to treat like a doll then can't wait till their children get a job so they can pay them money and wait for them to move out of home or when they split how much problems are caused because parents are too busy fighting each other for anyone to care about the children

so what is this deep desire for? the children or themselves?