Men still have the control, how is this ok?

[Unad11]

I have had various experiences with men, some good and some bad. But the reality of how men still control the world really hit me when I had DD.

DP left me during pregnancy after a four year relationship. Things that followed…

Called CMS and was spoken to like shit, had to call constantly to get anything done. Told they would ‘do what they can’ (spoiler, that’s very little).

When he was forced to pay, he did. But he can have a 24% increase in his pay during the year which isn’t taken into account for any increase. He did actually have a 20% increase and he pocketed it all without giving any extra towards DD’s life… this despite the fact that the nursery bill alone was more than double his contribution from CMS.

When he had more involvement in her life it was on his terms. He was often late. I did all the hard yards of keeping her up to date with vaccinations and enrolling her in and paying for nursery.

Then I had the role of being there 24/7 if she ever needed collecting from nursery. It was me who had to ask favours of my manager, me whose career was affected, me who shouldered the financial penalties.

And the real kicker? If you dare to talk about money, you’re a gold digger, you’re all about money or you’re reminded that the money is for DD and not ‘for you.’ That’s ignoring the fact that the lovely gentlemen paying the maintenance is receiving thousands from you in unpaid childcare… if he isn’t parenting 50% of the time (ie his share) he’d have to pay a nanny… but oh wait, he doesn’t because the woman is expected to do it all.

And the next kicker… if you dare to complain that you’re doing it all, don’t you WANT to look after your DD? What a terrible mother you are!

The reality is, money matters. Money protects, money gives you control. Men need to pay up, properly. Men and women need to stop shaming women for speaking up.

I also want to add to my rant that I think nursery is the only place where you hear people talking about it like it’s a charity… (when they’re not)… if it closes or there’s a shut down, no you shouldn’t have to pay to ‘ensure the staff are paid.’ Only in a childcare context is it that the women are supposed to be grateful for the service being provided in return for huge fees. Imagine a gym closing for a day and people (men) being told shut up and pay because the staff still need paying. Women are always supposed to be grateful, we are outsourcing our job to earn money, when that’s shameful remember (..!!) And yes I know the ts and cs often say you must pay when there’s closures but that’s not the point, the point is it’s the only industry where that’s supposed to be accepted. Women you must be grateful even if you are paying through the nose for the childcare.

I sound bitter and twisted (because I am) but I am (very luckily) financially secure and mostly protected from this shit these days (DD now 5).

But… I want to help make changes. I don’t know where to start. Any ideas thoughts or comments very much welcome. And I’m bracing myself for the usual misogynistic posts too, of course.

I mean, I don't recognise any of the things you mention in your first para. Most of my friends' children are loved and wanted.

And of course people have children to please themselves. You wouldn't get people who didn't want them having them, anyway, for some altruistic purpose, would you? I think most reasonable people agree that children should be wanted. But if you're saying that children should be wanted but in such a way that isn't for the parents to satisfy their desire to have children, but only in an altruistic way, yet still wanted just as much...sorry, it doesn't really make sense. People who really want children tend to have them. And I can't see what's wrong with that. It's how the human race has survived.

I should have made it clear, a long term couple who have made joint plans to have a child is not what i was speaking of

Yes their relationship can break down

People who blindly have a child because well someone is throwing me some attention and I really want a baby so will stick my head in the sand and ignore all the red flag, then go on to have more ignoring more red flags is

Married my professional ex, discussed being parents beforehand, had planned babies...
Before he decided to "disappear" with the new woman so he can't be located for maintenance. Hasn't sent so much as a birthday card to his own children in years. Hasn't contacted his children in years.
Same man used to amaze his colleagues with his Peter Andre love my kids shtick.
Whatever happened, my children were born as the result of two people deciding, but one gets to walk away from his responsibilities.
Unfortunately in all the cases of marriage breakup that I know, I only know two dads who truly put their children first. The rest avoid maintenance and access to greater and lesser degrees. Maybe not all men, but nearly all the men.

@Dollyfloss because keeping up appearances of us having a good relationship pays dividends for the children. They love that he comes for tea on their birthday and we sit next to each other at dance shows. My youngest is 6 and is a mummy’s girl. Her being able to FaceTime literally anywhere anytime when she is with her dad makes her feel reassured. I quite frankly don’t trust him not be unreasonable if we don’t get on. In a few years it won’t matter as much. For now, I simmer quietly.

Yes - women do the most extraordinary things every day. Things that when a man does them he gets enormous praise for.

One thing I've learned in general is that other people's opinions aren't worth much - people never know what is really going on in relationships and families or what people are really like

But it works both ways all this 'woman are saints and have to put up with everything bad a man does' and the usual martyring

I would say both men and women can be good and bad

What do you mean when you say he's. "Generous to have a child with"?

Of course women are not saints, nobody is saying they are but they certainly don’t abandon their children at the same rates as men.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/separated-families-statistics-april-2014-to-march-2024/separated-families-statistics-april-2014-to-march-2024

Ok Just to play devil's advocate here id say that its not technically men who have the ability to get away with doing / paying almost nothing, its the non resident parent. Now I know for the most part that IS the man but just pointing out it isn't always. When I was a kid my mum met a new man and up and left and moved to a different country. Never paid maintenance, saw us every now and then in school holidays when it suited her.
And actually my gym closes over Christmas and we dont get a reduction.
I do feel your pain by the way and I understand why youre angry. I would be too in your situation.

If they are nice (which ofc is a big IF) extended family support is better for women than the nuclear family alone.

That’s very true and just to play devil’s advocate in return, it’s only ALMOST 90% of non resident parents who are male. I’m happily married to a man who is great with our joint dc and they are almost adults now so I’ll never be in this situation and it’s not personal but I’m also not blind and deaf to the world around me. Everybody here taking time out of their day to give a mention to the one non resident parent they know who is female and a bit rubbish doesn't change what we all see every day unfortunately.

Is that really true re courts though?

If you don't want kids, why marry for security?

I completely agree and yes the arguments trying to shame women from speaking up are infuriating. In dealing with a man in a cms context I have seen exactly how much sexism is tolerated and encouraged in our society. A man is not shamed into accepting what is unfair, but a woman is. And that’s before all the ‘my ex goes on 52 holidays a year with the £20 a month CMS’ stories.

All my kids were planned, by both of us, Mine are now older and I have told them "only have kids if you are prepared to bring them up alone, things change and you could be left to do it all." Also to the sons, the same plus how they step up from conception their needs do not come first.

There have been some terrible stories on here about the lengths that some men will go to in order to pay the bare minimum or absolutely nothing to their ex-wives/partners for the children that they have fathered.

They hide assets, resign from their jobs, put everything in their new partner's name, including their businesses/companies, work for cash in hand and don't declare any income.

It's ridiculous how all this behaviour seems just to be accepted by CMS and HMRC without any questioning or investigation.

You mean women who have kids with abusive men? Well, that’s complicated, because abusers are often truly lovely until they have the woman trapped.

If you seriously want something to be done about this as women then write to you MPs, MSPs, Sennedd deputies, councillors, prospective candidates REGARDLESS of their or your personal prejudices and demand something be done. Write is a manner appropriate to the known leanings of the party. If labour, about how a useless CMS is hobbling women from achieving greatness, if Tory how deadbeat dad's are letting the country down, if Reform picture of a spitfire and union jack and how innocent English virgins have been despoiled by foreign invaders - whatever.

Or sit back a day Bad men , yah, men are bad, bastard men , yah yah yah.

My son is the resident parent. His daughter does not see her mother who is an alcoholic, abusive, drug taking waste of space. Cms have been useless. It's shitty parents that are the problem and the shitty parent is not always the mother.

And since he was paying maintenance, can we assume he wasn't 50/50 responsible for their care?

'had to do the travelling' - so when they split, sounds like he didn't stay close to them himself?

And his son didn't want to come and see him after they moved? Well. I know that if I moved, my son would come and visit me.. sounds like he needed to work harder on that relationship.

It's impossible to know the circumstance, but, I've often considered moving back to be closer to family so I had someone (reliable) who could take the kids every now and then when I needed to do something, or to look after them after school once a week so I had an hour or two's breathing space between work and school runs. Or perhaps she had a fantastic job offer? Is he saying that he wouldn't move if he got a great job offer (because I see plenty of fathers on here that do)

No, it's not.

No matter what the circumstances before the split, they start at a presumption of 50/50 for a start. They prioritise contact over everything else, but don't enforce it (for obvious reasons), so the non-resident parent (>90% of the time male) can have 50/50 agreed in the courts, then just not turn up, and all the resident parent can do is spend more money going back to court.

If a father wants contact, he will get it, and largely on his own terms. And if the mother tries to do anything about that, she will be sanctioned for it.

Mine went on a fitness drive, started taking TRT, and completely changed personality - became cold and hard, sex was painful and rough and left me in tears more than once, then he started sleeping with anyone (male or female) who'd let him.

Not sure how I could have predicted that TBH.

I think the fight for a world in which women are treated equally has had many successes thanks to the work of women who went before us. But you're right it's far from over.
What you can do will be personal and depend on your circumstances. But things like speaking out and challenging these attitudes, having conversations with people where you give another view helps. As does supporting and uplifting other women whenever you get the chance.
You can donate to causes furthering women's rights or get involved with projects to benefit women and girls. You can use your vote to support candidates who seem to have an interest in women's issues. You can lobby your MP if you spot an injustice in law. You can complain formally when you encounter sexist attitudes in organisations. You can join feminist groups.
You won't change the world on your own, but we are 50% of the population, so if we all do a little then we can be a powerful force.

Can you name four of your son's mates?
When did you last drive your son to an extracurricular activity?
What size shoes does he wear?
When was his last dentist appointment, and who booked it?
What are his plans post- 16, and was it you taking him to all the open days/ talking through his plans/ badgering him to get all the applications in in time?