To think we can’t take the children out of school just to spend Christmas with DHs family

[ansieone]

My DH is Serbian, he is Orthodox Christian and celebrates Christmas on January 7th. We have 2 DC our eldest is 4 and will start school in the summer. We are flying out tomorrow for his family Christmas and I was packing, I mentioned casually that it was a bit sad this would be our last year going for a while, he seemed totally shocked and asked why. I mentioned that most of the time school will be back by the 7th so we won’t have a choice. He said that he figured we’d just take the kids out of school for the first week back, we will likely go private so fines shouldn’t be an issue but he said even if we went state he’d rather pay the fines than miss Christmas with his family. He believes that it is really important they get time with his family and not just his parents who will visit but his siblings, cousins etc. and Christmas is the only time everyone is reliably together. I do understand this but I’m not sure I agree that we can just pull them out for the first week of term year after year, maybe I’d feel differently if it was one day, or the last day of term, but 5 whole days at the start of term where I expect they will be refreshing last terms learning and starting new topics feels damaging.

AIBU to say we can’t just take them out of school? DH seems really upset and annoyed at the prospect of missing Christmas with his family.

Looks like the mother is the only one who has thought ahead and actually considered what starting school means.

This was my thought too. I would say that it won’t need to be every Christmas or none: private schools have much longer holidays and there have been many years when my kids have gone back on 11 January! And yes, when you’re talking about a child in early primary school, I’m sure you will be allowed an extra day or two at the start of term and it won’t have a detrimental impact on your child. But as they get older, it might well be a different story. Most private schools have entrance exams around the 6/7 January. Mock exams tend to start then. Even in the pre GCSE years, things ramp up significantly and it won’t be great to miss an important test or a few days of learning that they’ll need for the exam syllabus. So I think you will definitely need to look at it and consider things on a year by year basis, rather than take the “oh - it’s a religious celebration/it’s great for them” as a blanket point of view.

Ukranian christmas is russian orthodox christmas, even Z tried to make people celebrate it on 25th by law this year everyone i know still worked in december and plan to celebrate on 7th as usual

School should be okay as it’s a religious observance. They could authorise 3 days - one for Christmas and one each side for travelling. That way, you would have 2 days unauthorised which isn’t a fine.
I would definitely speak to school (and not just the week before breaking up in December).

I wouldn't worry too much in primary school. The only years I wouldn't miss the start is their very first year. I'd want them to settle in with the others and not disrupt that.

God forbid we raise children who have critical thinking skills and can decide, on balance, what is the right thing to do, rather than automatons who just do as they are told.

Op I'd be taking him out of school for valuable family time and cultural enrichment. Maybe not every year, perhaps as he gets older you could offer to host, but certainly I'd be going for the early primary years. My oldest is in year 3 and she's missed school to attend family weddings in the states and Australia, and a couple of days to accompany DH to a speaking engagement in Mauritius. Other than that she's got great attendance, has never finished a year below 95% and is doing very well at school. Fortunately she attends a reasonable school who have never referred us (or to the best of my knowledge any other family) for a fine.

I’m a teacher. Whilst they are young I’d take them out, missing a week of primary school at the very start of Spring term isn’t a big deal and absences for religious reasons are usually authorised. Schools can typically go back any day between 2nd - 8th so it won’t be necessary for them to miss a full week every year, some years they might be able to go back for a few days before going away or will only miss a day or two before the return but that’s something you can work out when your kids are actually at school and you know their term dates! There may be years where the dates means it doesn’t work or where you feel missing the time would have an impact, but I certainly wouldn’t dismiss the idea of it ever happening again. Some things such as links to family and culture are more important than a week of school!

Every single time I read a thread about the English school system I am grateful my kids go to school in Scotland.

My kids are at school in England, I take them out for a few days at the beginning of spring term every year to celebrate Reyes with family in Spain and we’ve never had an issue. It’s always been authorised.

Same. Ireland though.

I dont think its unreasonable to be thinking about jt but you are definitely over egging it. It would very seldom be a full week, for a start. And certainly, while the dc arr small, assuming they are doing OK academically, I just dont see the problem.

Our private school never went back until the 7/8th, so then at least that would only be missing the first three days.

State schools will not allow you to be away for that long and will definitely fine and could possibly refer you to court if you continue to take them, so that's not an option every year.

I would check term dates for the schools you're planning to go to and then sound out the headmaster. Ours (private) would have been okay about missing the first couple of days for something like that.

Secondary schools all start back earlier, so it would only be until then anyway.

I would just start saving to pay any fines, limit the visits to 4 days after term starts back, request authorised religious exemptions and just be smart about it. I agree with your DH that the state attitude on this is so messed up we aren’t required to go along with it….
I am fully expecting a pendulum swing soon. It’s got silly.

It depends where you are. My primary aged children are due back tomorrow, and my secondary aged child on Tuesday. They’ll all be back on Thursday.

Would you be able to take them out but minimise disruption? My daughter is private and she returns on the 6th for example. You could leave on the 8th (having spent a week there I assume) and DC would be back to school on the 9th. Only missing 3 days instead of a full week?

This would work out better next year as they actually return on the 7th. On years she goes back earlier you could go to them on the 6th I.e Thursday and come back on the Sunday.

I wouldn’t worry about a couple of days, but wouldn’t let her miss a full week of new term.

Except that the first few days of a new term is when new topics are introduced, and when DC does go back to school they will probably be confused about what’s going on in many lessons. I would share OP's concerns.

OP: I'm not saying don’t go away, because it’s obviously important to your DH, but be aware that this puts a big strain on teachers to give your DC individual attention when they come back, to help them catch up on what they’ve missed, and this naturally has an impact on the rest of the class. (And no, asking for work to take away with you is not the solution. DC needs to see and hear the same input from the teacher as the rest of the class.)

Since your eldest is 4 you have several years before missing a bit of school becomes an issue

You will get 1-2 days off authorised. You should go. It's weird you married him knowing he was orthodox and thought that Christmas wouldn't be very important for him. I work in primary school missing 5 days won't make a difference to their education assuming they have decent attendance apart form that. Just go and enjoy it. Out of interest have you not considered sending them to catholic school rather than private. You'd save a hell of a lot of money and they are almost as good as private and align with your child's beliefs.

State schools won't fine because they will give 2 days authorised for religious holidays. They can't fine you for the other 3 days. It has to be 5 days unauthorised for a fine.

I would definitely take them out of school for that. Their family ties and religious and cultural heritage are more important than a few days of education.

I probably wouldn’t do it in years 9-13 but up until then I wouldn’t worry too much. Kids of average ability with interested and involved families can cope with a few days absence.

Agree.

Ahhh, I just know the Ukrainian children we have in school are always off on the 7th ☺️

In case no one has mentioned already, I think you probably have one more year without the risk of a fine. No fines until children become of legally required school age, which is the beginning of term after their 5th birthday. So if your child's birthday is (for example) 1 November, you can't be fined for absence until the following January onwards.

I'm not one to take my kids out of school but under your circumstances I would.

While they're in infant school, I would take them out - especially as many years it will only be a day or 2 of missing school depending on when the weekend falls.
By the time it gets to secondary, it would depend what impact it has on them, are the big family Christmases still happening and obviously if there was a year when it clashes with external exams would have to miss that year.