To think we can’t take the children out of school just to spend Christmas with DHs family

[ansieone]

My DH is Serbian, he is Orthodox Christian and celebrates Christmas on January 7th. We have 2 DC our eldest is 4 and will start school in the summer. We are flying out tomorrow for his family Christmas and I was packing, I mentioned casually that it was a bit sad this would be our last year going for a while, he seemed totally shocked and asked why. I mentioned that most of the time school will be back by the 7th so we won’t have a choice. He said that he figured we’d just take the kids out of school for the first week back, we will likely go private so fines shouldn’t be an issue but he said even if we went state he’d rather pay the fines than miss Christmas with his family. He believes that it is really important they get time with his family and not just his parents who will visit but his siblings, cousins etc. and Christmas is the only time everyone is reliably together. I do understand this but I’m not sure I agree that we can just pull them out for the first week of term year after year, maybe I’d feel differently if it was one day, or the last day of term, but 5 whole days at the start of term where I expect they will be refreshing last terms learning and starting new topics feels damaging.

AIBU to say we can’t just take them out of school? DH seems really upset and annoyed at the prospect of missing Christmas with his family.

It would be an approved absence because it’s a religious festival. Even at a private school other parents will take the odd day here and there because they want to go somewhere for a long weekend and need to travel on the Friday (we do this 2-3 times a year). Really, it’s fine. Maybe not in exam years but that’s years off so no point worrying about that yet.

I would take them out. Especially in early years, they are not going to be sitting down recapping and revising topics. Maybe it will be different when they're sitting GCSE, but a lot can happen between then and now.

Is it more that you dont want to go??

It’s not as big of an issue as you seem to think. Children tend to go back on the 5th/6th. Generally 6th, as the 5th is an inset day. Considering the start day differs every year, it could mean missing the whole 5 days or just 1 or 2. A day or two are also lost with resettling, soft start, reminder of behaviour and rules , rather than active learning. There should also be some leeway from the school, since it’s a religious observance. Rather than a blank no, consider going every other year , or deciding depending on the dates. It really won’t be a big deal in EYFS , or frankly , most of primary. You can reassess once they’re in secondary, but it’s a tad daft to state such absolutes before your child has even started school.

Sorry I've not read the whole thread but in case anyone hasn't said it remind him that it's a criminal offence, not just a fine, and that parents have served time in prison.

And it's a criminal offence for good reason YANBU.

At that age I definitely would just take them out of school.

It isn’t just fines anymore. If you go over a certain number of unauthorised absences in a 3 year period there is also a criminal conviction, which will show up on dbs etc.

Time off for religious observation would be the actual day, which wouldn’t take into account travel time etc. So the 7th would be marked authorised.

Take next year, term starts on the 4th. So you would have 8 sessions of unauthorised and 2 authorised. You would need to track them very carefully to not to over into the prosecution range.

Would you be happy to miss your Xmas every year?

of course you should take them
out.

I would definitely go. I wouldn’t even think of it. Ignore posters who say you might end up in prison.

Which is also a reasonable approach. But assuming a parent has at least thought about the impact of starting school for their child and how if they want to request absence then that's not completely straightforward is also reasonable.

Looks like the mother is the only one who has thought ahead and actually considered what starting school means. No surprises there.

I’d do it, it’s a lovely time for everyone to spend time together.

Oh dear.

I wouldn’t assume private school will absolve you of fines- they still have to report attendance to the council and I think this has changed to be stricter relatively recently. I have one in a state primary and one in a private school and the private is much stricter about authorising absence. Their position is the the holidays are longer than state so they really don’t like holidays in term time. Our state has never authorised but always wishes us a good time. I haven’t ever pushed it though to a full week off as I think their hands are a bit tied now re fines.

I’d still want to do it though- it feels important to experience if even if you have to do it every other year or limit it to a few days. Mine are back on the 6th and 7th this year.

The thing is, she’s massively overthinking it. The term doesn’t always start on a Monday. There’s no recapping of previous learning at least until Ks2 in primary, if at all. There isn’t always new learning being started either. I see it more as a fluid situation, rather than a blanket no more Orthodox Christmas.

I would for the first few years, if you are going private for secondary as well and want to apply for competitive schools, you might want to rethink missing any time in year 5, but by year 6 exams will be done. Secondary school would be difficult and probably not be a good idea for a full week - could you host some years or if you are lucky with when the 7th falls re the weekend, just take a long weekend.

Obviously year 11 and 13 your child will most likely have mocks first week back in January.

You need to request holiday from a private school too. They started to report lateness and absences to councils (I heard it was due to a stricter position of the Department of Education). But it shouldn’t be a big issue, even if they mark it with a scary word “unauthorised absence”. I had unauthorised absences here and there last year as we were looking to change schools, no fines. So if you are back on 9 or 10 Jan, it will just be 2-3-4 days missed.

For exam years I might worry about missing school but not for a while. I think minimising the time off by going there earlier and returning on 8th/9th is a good compromise.

i’d suggest whats best for the children us the way to go. It’s not about fines it’s about the kids lives.

Which would probably mean it gets assessed each year and discussed with the teacher. So if there would be a change of class mates or an important going over of last terms work, some of which the kids struggled with, it could mean it’s better to go abroad for just a couple of days at the weekend instead of the religions christmas day. If however the kids are bright and teacher advises not much will be happening, and same class mates so nobody new to meet, then maybe a week or most of a week would be fine.

I suppose another thing to consider is whether the religion is one which you practice all year, or if it’s just an excuse kind of thing for a family catch up? if its not a big deal in your lives then maybe it’s easier to miss on occasion. If it’s important to observe everything that happens abd you can do that here, then you should really try and go.

I think it's really important for kids to spend time with cousins especially when they live in different countries. It can foster a huge sense of belonging. I'd let them miss school, but look at the dates each year and see how you can minimise the days off.

You’d be surprised at the number of children who are taken out of school in term time to visit their relatives abroad. Lots of the children in my school travel to India or Pakistan for a couple of weeks particularly around religious festivals.
Do NOT ask the teacher for any school work to take with you - it’s your choice to take them out of school, the teacher does not need their workload added to because of this!
Your DH is right - go, enjoy family, celebrate!

I am a teacher and 100% agree. Take them!

School should authorise due to religiousholiday. Even the travel, once he starts school write a letter to the head and request the time off. If they reject set up a meeting explaining the importance etc.

For the people who think there's nothing wrong with this and that the OP is being unreasonable, and "oh dear" people who remind them that it's a criminal offence to take your children out of school -

If you teach a 4, 5 , 6 year old that going to school is for when you don't have something more interesting to do, then don't be surprised if your 15 year old refuses to get out of bed to go there.

Not at all, because the headteacher can authorise the absence.

Oh dear.
Again..

I would absolutely take them out of school at least until year 6. It's an important family and religious holiday for them. Lots of children miss 2-4 days over the year for religious observance. It's not a big deal, even if it isn't authorised.