Am I storing up problems by letting him eat whatever he wants?

[foggytea]

Hi. First post and already regretting how exposed this feels, but here goes.

I have a DS who turned 4 in November. He’s my youngest. I also have two older children and they were never like this with food, which is why I’m questioning myself so much.

Some days he eats constantly and asks for food non stop. Other days he barely eats anything at all and refuses most of what I offer. On the days he wants specific things, I usually just give in and give him exactly what he’s asked for. I know how that sounds written down.

He’s always been very strong willed. If he wants something and doesn’t get it, he has full on meltdowns. Crying, shouting, throwing himself on the floor, screaming for the food he’s asked for. If I try to redirect or offer something else, he will flat out refuse to eat anything at all. He will happily go hungry rather than eat something he hasn’t chosen.

When he was a baby he had breathing issues and was on nebulisers on and off until he was about 3. He’s fine now, but I think food became the one area he had some say in very early on, and I’ve never really reset that dynamic.

He refuses all vegetables. I mean all of them. Won’t touch them. If they’re on his plate he pushes them off or says yuck and won’t eat anything else on the plate either. Fruit is hit and miss. He’ll eat grapes sometimes, maybe banana, but most fruit gets refused. If I offer him food instead of him asking for it, he usually says no and then later has a meltdown because he’s hungry but still won’t accept what’s on offer.

He’s not potty trained yet and yes I know at 4 that’s late, we are trying.

He is on the chubby side. Solid, chunky, whatever word fits. Not enormous, but definitely bigger than my older two were at this age.

I wrote down what he’s eaten the last few days and it looks dreadful. But it’s also realistic.

Food log:

Monday:
Breakfast: large bowl of chocolate hoops with full fat milk. Offered porridge first which he refused.
Mid morning: bottle of warm milk
Snack: pack of pom bears
Lunch: offered chicken and veg wraps, refused completely. Ended up with white bread cheese sandwich with butter and a yoghurt tube
Snack: two chocolate digestive biscuits after asking repeatedly
Dinner: fish fingers x3, oven chips. Beans were on the plate but untouched.
After bath: bottle of milk and a chocolate mousse

Tuesday:
Breakfast: refused cereal and porridge. Eventually had two slices of white toast with Nutella
Snack: apple slices offered, ate a couple then refused the rest
Lunch: offered pasta with hidden veg, refused. Had chicken nuggets x4 and smiley faces
Snack: small bag of ready salted Walkers
Dinner: offered bolognese, refused. Had plain pasta with a bit of butter, a few mouthfuls only
Later: meltdown because he was hungry but refused sandwiches and fruit. Eventually had one slice of toast with butter
Before bed: bottle of milk

Wednesday:
Breakfast: bowl of honey cornflakes with milk
Snack: strawberry yoghurt
Lunch: ham sandwich, cheese string. Cucumber offered and refused
Snack: small chocolate bar
Dinner: sausage and mash. Carrots offered, untouched
Pudding: vanilla ice cream
Later: bottle of milk while watching TV

Thursday:
Breakfast: refused breakfast
Mid morning: bottle of milk
Snack: two rich tea biscuits
Lunch: nuggets again (I know), handful of grapes which he did eat after initially saying no
Snack: pack of pom bears
Dinner: frozen pepperoni pizza, ate two slices. Salad offered and ignored
Later: asked for cereal so had a small bowl of chocolate cereal

Today so far:
Breakfast: one slice of toast with butter
Snack: yoghurt pouch
Lunch: offered jacket potato with cheese and sweetcorn, refused. Ended up with half a ham sandwich
Snack: small bag of cheese and onion Walkers after a meltdown because I said no at first

Seeing it written down makes me feel awful. It’s beige, processed, sugary, and very much driven by what he demands rather than what I offer. I do offer other foods first most of the time, but he just refuses and then escalates until I give in or he eats nothing.

He’s very active, always running about, but he is still chubbier than his peers. I don’t want to create food issues or make him feel controlled, but I also feel like I’ve lost control completely and I’m parenting from fear of a meltdown.

Am I being unreasonable to let this continue? Do I need to ride out the meltdowns and stop giving in even if he refuses to eat?

Please be honest but not cruel. This is my first thread and I’m already bracing myself

Haven't read whole thread. I had one who was extremely fussy but was related to severe food allergies. Had psychology and dietician help via NHS to try and get them to relax around food. It worked a little. The thing I wish I had done was relaxed more about food and food intake. It's hard though when you worry.

I had one who was a big eater and a bit chunky but having had the experience of the older one and having a sister with an eating disorder I was totally chilled around food - wasn't easy. I was worried about making them sensitive about food and creating a whole psychology around food. It worked. He grew into having a healthy relationship with food and has no weight issues. He stops when full and doesn't overeat.

My advice is try to chill around food. I know it's hard but you risk giving him a complex.

I also agree with those who mentioned neuro divergent behaviour. Might be worth exploring

I think there’s a balance.
I do believe in choices and not forcing food on kids but he doesn’t get to be in full control - of course he’s going to choose the unhealthy stuff.

He is eating quite a lot of junk food and I would stop this straight away.

He should not be eating biscuits and chocolate cereal, there is just no need.

Having a ham or cheese sandwich is not the worst thing in the world and so I wouldn’t worry about him having these just now.

Pizza is better for you than chocolate cereal. So instead of porridge vs chocolate cereal, offer porridge vs healthier cereal or a ham/cheese sandwich.

I would focus on dropping the unhealthy snacks and then keep trying to include some veg if you can (you can find recipes that hide veg).

I wouldn’t worry too much as kids go through phases but I would definitely make some small adjustments.

Honestly it's the milk. Stop the bottles, offer milk in a cup and switch to semi skimmed at this age. Too much full fat milk is bad for fast weight gain but more importantly too much milk with a lack of varied diet increases risk of anaemia.

Beyond that 3-4 was THE age for fussiness for both of mine. Eldest is ASD/ADHD and we had lots of food related meltdowns. We took all pressure off, initially we still offered meals then had a more substantial snack if he didn't eat the meals. Then the meltdowns were so bad (it turns out he was so afraid of disappointing us by not eating but just couldn't eat the food) so we started giving him a safe food choice and having 'our' food available at the side.

He gradually started trying things. Started liking surprising things like salad leaves, eating a side fo veg he'd happily have on his plate. It's all 'kid veg' so he'll have carrots, peas, sweet corn, beans but it means we can put a veg on his plate with each meal.

He eats all fruit, likes porridge, loves sushi, will try most things. We're able to give him a decent balanced diet at 7 and no food upset.

Youngest hit 3 and the same started, we'd a bad few weeks where she lived on crackers and ham, she's 4.5 now and gradually past couple of months she's eating and asking for more meals, we're just doing the same we did before and waiting for it to pass.

I was a very fussy child, lived largely on bananas, toast and eggs for a couple of years. From the age of 16/17 I started being able to eat more and as an adult I eat everything

Do the hard work now so you can reap the benefits later.

I think you’re right to worry OP. It doesn’t sound good at all. I think you should take him to GP and get a dietician referral. My friend did. Her son wouldn’t eat most foods due to sensory issues - questioning if autistic still. They are gently moving him to a more balanced diet. I think your son needs some intervention.

I know it’s really hard, but the diet of sugar and UPFs will be driving the meltdowns. Food has a huge impact on behaviour and emotions, especially for small children. Breaking out of that cycle will be worth it in the long run.

I would get professional advice as fussy eating plus potty training struggles at this age might indicate additional needs but in the meantime you can definitely try to improve his diet. Does he like any sauce, like ketchup for instance? DS became very very fussy as a toddler but I was able to gradually increase the variety of his diet by giving new foods with a whole lot of ketchup on. Over time I was able to reduce the amount of ketchup and now he only has it with ketchup appropriate foods rather than with absolutely everything, including pancakes.

Does he go to childcare, if so what does he eat there? Peer pressure can work wonders with fussy eaters - when everyone else is eating the same meal they are more likely to try it so nursery/school dinners rather than packed lunches are a good idea.

I think there are two seperate issues here. One is that you are babying him, he is drinking bottles and still in nappies. That feeds into the other issue, which is basically that he tantrums when he doesn't get to eat the crap he wants. You cant make him eat stuff that he doesn't like/want, but as pp said, dont have crisps, Nutella etc in the house so they are not an option. Pasta, white bread etc with butter aren't ideal but can be built on. I think you have had some good advice here about what types of food to offer and how to offer it, but nothing will change as long as he is being babied and rewarded for his tantrums. I know its hard, I have gone through this myself, as a child and then as a parent, but at 4 he is old enough now for you to get a handle on this.

OP I had two children both weaned on home made, nutritious and wholesome foods, who later ( about 3 ish) started to refuse large groups of foods. I tried trying to ‘set boundaries’ and ‘ride it out’. It didn’t work and they lost weight- because thin. Both have since been diagnosed as neurodiverse. My older childs palette has expanded a lot in the last few years however ( late teens) and the younger I hope may follow suit. Contrary to what other posters have said, I think your Son is eating ‘ok’ and the main thing is he is always offered the healthier options for main meals. I would continue to quietly do that. The only thing I would change is the bottles of milk- mainly for his oral health- the risk of dental caries is very high with extended bottle use.

My 4.5 year old was eating everything in sight in the summer, eating her own breakfast and then asking for mine but she went up 3 shoe sizes her body was clearly growing. She was eating loads of fruit and veg. This winter she keeps skipping meals and saying “I don’t know” when given a choice of meals or “I don’t want that” when I just cook something and hasn’t really grown - I think there hunger cycles are linked to their growth cycles. After a few arguments and chatting to other parents I’ve decided to just let it go and if she skips a meal she doesn’t need the food. I think if we fight about it she refuses more and it becomes more of a thing so I just say “okay, are you sure you don’t want anything - we have yoghurt, banana, babybels etc…” steer them towards good choices.

My daughter has not eaten enough fruit and veg this winter and I do feel bad about it - she is loving cheese, eggs and meat mostly but has also been constantly asking for chocolate and junk food. Over xmas we stayed with family who had tons of chocolate so she way more than I would usually allow and she wanted chocolate instead of meals but I tell her sugar will eat her teeth, hurt her stomach and we can’t have too much. I also compromised and said she could have a chocolate from her stocking after she eats some of a healthy meal but she can’t have it instead of lunch or breakfast.

Christmas we were awful but outside of Xmas she doesn’t have sugar every day and when she is having a treat I tell her that will be her one for the day and is she happy with her choice. If she complains later she wants another I tell her she already chose for that day and she can choose the other thing on another day. I don’t have sugary breakfast cereals in the house - it really starts the day on the wrong note. Sugar basically causes spikes and crashes so the more sugar they have the more they crave it and the more tantrums they will have. It also causes huge inflammation in our bodies! I do let my kid have some but it is very much a treat and never part of a meal! Let him skip meals rather than give sugar or crisps and when he is hungry he will eat proper food! Sometimes you just have to hug them when they have a tantrum and say “I know it’s tough, I love you a lot and that is why I am doing this”.

Does he eat at nursery? It’s always amazing what they’ll eat there and not at home… it’s the peer pressure of the other kids all eating it and the lack of expectation that there is anything different. Could you try and use that at home? So does he eat with his siblings and the same thing as his siblings? And you? All eating together and there isn’t anything else if he doesn’t join in could help.

Also, giving a choice but only of the things he can have gives him some control and can sort of trick them into accepting a good option - again, this is what nursery do at breakfast. They hold up two boxes of cereal and the kids point to the one they want. Then they have chosen but aren’t choosing from anything in the world they fancy! Same as you might do with two different but pre-approved jumpers in order to get them dressed.

Sympathy - my daughter is only 21 months so picky eating could very much still be to come for me. I also am mostly guided by her and feel lucky she at least likes vegetables. It’s remarkable how well kids survive on crap though. Not ideal but it doesn’t actually seem to do them that much harm tbh. Maybe just try and reduce calories overall. I wouldn’t worry at all on the days he has a lower appetite - probably a good thing for his weight!

Oh look up the Zoe project btw - they have loads of interesting info about how white bread and sugar cause energy spikes and then big crashes. In a kid this will leave them feeling awful and will cause a tantrum demanding more instant energy to get out of the crash. They have hugely helpful info like how sometimes combining foods can lessen the spike like having white bread but putting a nut butter on it that has good fats and proteins! My daughter refuses porridge now and demands toast every morning - we give her an egg with it (she’s obsessed with boiled eggs) or we give her peanut butter - she has never had nutella. Something like peanut butter will give her a moderate amount of energy for the morning but nutella will give her a sudden burst of high energy and then a crash 30mins later leaving them looking for another sugar hit! Hummus is another good choice or even just cheese/meat!

I would definitely cut out the bottles of milk. 4 year olds don’t need bottles of milk, especially if they’re overweight

Stand firm on the getting upset about food. Wear ear plugs if you want. Offer a healthy crunchy alternative- carrots for example.
Water down the milk very slowly. No more bottles. Go and choose a big boy cup together.
If you get rid of all the chocolates, crisps etc there will be nothing to offer him of this nature.
He isn’t having a meltdown- he’s using the method he has learnt works. Believe in your own natural authority as a parents and make good choices for him. He is 4 and not capable of making good choices - that’s what parents are for 🙂
For the meals I would say if bolegnaise is offered and he only has the pasta that’s ok. But not a completely different meal.
What is he like with food in other settings? Friends houses, nursery etc?

What @KoalaKoKo writes is great advice

When you say bottle of milk do you mean like a baby bottle or just a regular cup?
Either way full fat milk has lots of calories so it will keep him full which then allows him to be picky about what food he actually needs probably because he’s not that hungry.

Do you think he could be autistic? With the potty training and meltdowns I would say speak to your health visitor/GP.

His diet doesn’t sound great, but probably not that unusual to 90% of 4 year olds unfortunately.

If the family is served up a variety of food then they learn to eat it. If each child is given exactly what they particularly want then anarchy reigns and the cook gets knackered. And children then do not learn that they are part of a family and cannot always have exactly what they want. If tonight's meal is spaghetti bolognese, then that is what it is. And that is what everyone eats - or if they do not like it they can have bread and butter.

Tantrums exist for ignoring.

Why do kids need things breaded?
Especially overweight ones?
plain chicken and fish are healthy food stuffs why do they need to be breaded ?
if I ate all my proteins breaded I’d be as fat as a pig
why do we insist in doing this with kids food?

I gave other suggestions too either before or after that that are not breaded. Also when we made things breaded we didn’t necessarily serve it with another carb. But these were basically the only way this particular dc would eat- everything had to be beige and sometimes would only eat plain bread. . Or it that was the cycle we got ourselves in anyway. And managed to slowly change it He still loved bread but eats more varied now. . 3 year old is much easier with food and actually not really into bread in any shape or form.
but was just offering up some other suggestions anyway as OP said one thing he will eat chicken nuggets so was suggesting some more natural options. It won’t change overnight but I think worth trying small changes anyway?

Try dropping the milk, in or out of bottles - they can fill up on that so they don't want their food.

I think you made some great suggestions and it was only typical that these threads bring out the food police telling us we shouldn't be eating anything breaded or any sort of white carbohydrate while completely forgetting that children actually need more carbohydrates than us. And an actually a homemade breaded fish or chicken can be a healthy tea to make.

I am going to be more realistic than a lot of the posters and suggest the occasional nugget, bag of crisps once or twice a week will not be harmful, even the UPF critics (and I don't follow any of this UPF stuff ) suggest an 80/20 guide to follow. What is problematic is from your posts is that these type of food are given several times a day, every day.

I think what is concerning is as well is the amount of chocolate cereal they are having and then more treats on top of it. You seem to be parenting from a place of fear of upsetting your child than making healthy choices for this. A lifetime of obesity and health problems associated with this will be far more harmful than a tantrum will be to them.

At the end of the day, you can say all you want about your four year old demanding food but you are the parent. It is you, not your children who is going out and buying this food to have in your home. You need to sit with your children, make a menu plan including snacks and use pictures if necessary and then also ask for a referral to a dietician.

I have a ND child who will only eat what is safe for her and that does vary a little day to day. However she doesn’t tantrum if the food is wrong and really won’t eat if it doesn’t meet her needs. She’s 15 now and better able to articulate what she wants and to discuss nutrition but for her entire school career she ate nothing at all in school at lunchtime as we couldn’t find a safe food that worked in school. She was also clinically underweight until her teens.

If your son is not ND then I think you need to ride out the tantrums and get some control back. However I’d offer him choices but between 2 better options and I’d also offer the odd biscuit or beige meal as one of the choices so he doesn’t go cold turkey from a heavy junk food load to clean eating.