Am I storing up problems by letting him eat whatever he wants?

[foggytea]

Hi. First post and already regretting how exposed this feels, but here goes.

I have a DS who turned 4 in November. He’s my youngest. I also have two older children and they were never like this with food, which is why I’m questioning myself so much.

Some days he eats constantly and asks for food non stop. Other days he barely eats anything at all and refuses most of what I offer. On the days he wants specific things, I usually just give in and give him exactly what he’s asked for. I know how that sounds written down.

He’s always been very strong willed. If he wants something and doesn’t get it, he has full on meltdowns. Crying, shouting, throwing himself on the floor, screaming for the food he’s asked for. If I try to redirect or offer something else, he will flat out refuse to eat anything at all. He will happily go hungry rather than eat something he hasn’t chosen.

When he was a baby he had breathing issues and was on nebulisers on and off until he was about 3. He’s fine now, but I think food became the one area he had some say in very early on, and I’ve never really reset that dynamic.

He refuses all vegetables. I mean all of them. Won’t touch them. If they’re on his plate he pushes them off or says yuck and won’t eat anything else on the plate either. Fruit is hit and miss. He’ll eat grapes sometimes, maybe banana, but most fruit gets refused. If I offer him food instead of him asking for it, he usually says no and then later has a meltdown because he’s hungry but still won’t accept what’s on offer.

He’s not potty trained yet and yes I know at 4 that’s late, we are trying.

He is on the chubby side. Solid, chunky, whatever word fits. Not enormous, but definitely bigger than my older two were at this age.

I wrote down what he’s eaten the last few days and it looks dreadful. But it’s also realistic.

Food log:

Monday:
Breakfast: large bowl of chocolate hoops with full fat milk. Offered porridge first which he refused.
Mid morning: bottle of warm milk
Snack: pack of pom bears
Lunch: offered chicken and veg wraps, refused completely. Ended up with white bread cheese sandwich with butter and a yoghurt tube
Snack: two chocolate digestive biscuits after asking repeatedly
Dinner: fish fingers x3, oven chips. Beans were on the plate but untouched.
After bath: bottle of milk and a chocolate mousse

Tuesday:
Breakfast: refused cereal and porridge. Eventually had two slices of white toast with Nutella
Snack: apple slices offered, ate a couple then refused the rest
Lunch: offered pasta with hidden veg, refused. Had chicken nuggets x4 and smiley faces
Snack: small bag of ready salted Walkers
Dinner: offered bolognese, refused. Had plain pasta with a bit of butter, a few mouthfuls only
Later: meltdown because he was hungry but refused sandwiches and fruit. Eventually had one slice of toast with butter
Before bed: bottle of milk

Wednesday:
Breakfast: bowl of honey cornflakes with milk
Snack: strawberry yoghurt
Lunch: ham sandwich, cheese string. Cucumber offered and refused
Snack: small chocolate bar
Dinner: sausage and mash. Carrots offered, untouched
Pudding: vanilla ice cream
Later: bottle of milk while watching TV

Thursday:
Breakfast: refused breakfast
Mid morning: bottle of milk
Snack: two rich tea biscuits
Lunch: nuggets again (I know), handful of grapes which he did eat after initially saying no
Snack: pack of pom bears
Dinner: frozen pepperoni pizza, ate two slices. Salad offered and ignored
Later: asked for cereal so had a small bowl of chocolate cereal

Today so far:
Breakfast: one slice of toast with butter
Snack: yoghurt pouch
Lunch: offered jacket potato with cheese and sweetcorn, refused. Ended up with half a ham sandwich
Snack: small bag of cheese and onion Walkers after a meltdown because I said no at first

Seeing it written down makes me feel awful. It’s beige, processed, sugary, and very much driven by what he demands rather than what I offer. I do offer other foods first most of the time, but he just refuses and then escalates until I give in or he eats nothing.

He’s very active, always running about, but he is still chubbier than his peers. I don’t want to create food issues or make him feel controlled, but I also feel like I’ve lost control completely and I’m parenting from fear of a meltdown.

Am I being unreasonable to let this continue? Do I need to ride out the meltdowns and stop giving in even if he refuses to eat?

Please be honest but not cruel. This is my first thread and I’m already bracing myself

My son was like this would only eat beige foods or simple curry and rice or plain pasta with just sauce, so I started making my own nuggets and take on smiley faces as at least I knew they were healthier.
i would try cutting back on the milk to maybe bedtime only so he has an appetite when he wakes up, if he wants yogurt give him a healthy one , if he wants cereal find a low sugar one, some battles will eventually resolve themselves especially when he starts school and see his friends eating and also has a limited choice.
Don’t beat yourself up it will hopefully resolve in time.

Has he started school yet? My DS was awkward about food, potty training (could be dry for weeks then refuse etc), wild tantrums etc. we also had speech delay, processing delay, gross motor delays and a lack of social skills with kids his own age (fine with older kids/adults). He’s now 5 and we’re under paeds for ND assessments - this week we’ve got a robotic arm programmed, so it all stacks up here 🫣😅

Some days DS will eat anything and everything, but on a day where it’s been a challenge, he’s overstimulated or worried, he’ll literally default to plain pasta and mango yo-yos. We balance it on the ‘better’ food days with protein and fruits. We also use vitamin tablets.

We do a LOT of sport - 5 mile cross country bike rides, Lake District hikes up big hills etc etc so weight is not an issue here. It also helps to regulate behaviour.

It’s worth a trip to the GP to look at weight if this is a concern to you - is he old enough to have had the weight assessment at school yet?

Personally, I’d cut down on milk and only offer with cereals and before cleaning teeth at night. Through the day, I’d promote water instead. You may find this will leave space for meal times.

That does sound tough but you need to take back some control and parent more effectively. Of course he’s going to tantrum and have meltdowns if he knows you’ll eventually give in. Why wouldn’t he?!
Is his dad on the scene? What’s he like with him or when he’s at nursery etc?
Also, what’s the problem with the toilet training? Do you give in to him and just put a nappy on?

He's definitely ruling the roost!

I'd try the following:

• Remove chocolate hoops, Nutella etc from house so they're not an option. If he cries and gets these when he wants them, of course he won't each porridge
• Let him go hungry, it won't kill him for a couple of days. Store food he doesn't eat in fridge. When he comes back for it, offer the last two meals for him to eat from. So hes making a choice but between two nutritious options
• Hide veg by boiling and blitzing to remove any bits, and using as pasta sauce
• If you do revert to nuggets/chips etc, still add veg on to his plate, it being there is non negotiable
• Play games with food i.e. using potatoes and mushrooms as paint stamps, so he gets used to them
• Let him help you to chop and cook, with kids chopping utensils
• Whilst preparing food, explain the nutritional benefits of things i.e. yoghurt is good for bones, protein good for muscle growth
• Remove all snacks that aren't healthy oat bars or yoghurt or fruit, so that's all he has to snack on. When my kids are fussy now and again I dont mind them getting full on these. Anything with low added sugar basically

You need to stay strong and not give in, or else he knows that that's all he needs to do to get what he wants. A couple of days of strict rules might crack it.

I am so sorry you are going through this. You are doing so many things right! Just picking out a couple of things from his well, the sausage and mash and pizza, at both meals vegetables were offered and that’s brilliant! He’s seeing and experiencing! That is a step towards eating. ❤️

It might be harder with older children in the house, but can you stop buying some of the UPFs that you are feeling the guilt about? Can you switch the bread to a healthier option? Fed is best and you are doing that! Perhaps, you can work from here on healthy swaps, maybe incrementally?

Don't by unhealthy foods (sweet cereals, crisps, white bread etc.), then they won't be an option.

I’m sure this is really hard for you OP but there’s so much to be said for just not buying the junk food in the first place. If it isn’t in the house you are far less likely to give in. I also think DS is too old for bottles and this will be harmful to his teeth at this age.
No judgement here, sending best wishes.

I have never come across a child at age four that genuinely doesn't know what crisps or biscuits are. There is a mid ground here here op, you can build up small changes over time

Edit to add, I've seen biscuits and pom bears served at toddler groups, but they should be a treat not your every day diet

It's not an unreasonable amount of food for a 4yo. But why the bottles of milk? He's well past that age, and it'll be giving him a lot of calories that he should be getting from food.

But perhaps by cutting down the amount of milk, he'll develop a hunger for more food? And just stop buying the crap. If you can physically show him there's no chocolate cereal in the cupboard, he'll have to settle for something else.

That's a LOT of sugar and processed stuff. Tbh unless he has severe special needs, I'd say he needs to hear No more often. A healthy, neurotypical child is not going to starve by refusing to eat for a couple of days. I'd put my foot down now, before he gets any older and more difficult to deal with. Dinner is dinner, eat it or don't. Put a stop to the bottles, he's years too old to still be having bottles.

The toilet training, I'd try to crack before he starts school as its not fair on his teachers, having to abandon their classes or use their breaks to change nappies. Again, if he doesn't have special needs, this should have been started years ago.

Be impervious to tantrums. If he kicks off, just walk away and leave him to it. Dinner is on the table, take it or leave it. Ignore whinging, screaming and crying. If he doesn't eat it, there is nothing else on offer until bedtime when I would offer a yoghurt or a slice of plain buttered toast.

Same with breakfast. Offer fruit, porridge, yoghurt, scrambled eggs, whatever non chocolatey, healthy breakfast food he will eat. If he won't choose, choose for him. Nothing else is on offer until lunch.

Obviously this advice applies only if he is neurotypical. Not children with special/sensory needs.

When we needed a reset, we just stopped all treat and UPF rubbish coming in the door. If it wasn’t there and available, the kids just didn’t ask. But if they know it’s there, they (and us!) obviously want it. We’ve relaxed it a bit over Christmas and don’t worry about it in general outside of the house, but we probably need a post-Christmas purge to get us back on track.

It was amazing how quickly they went from wanting crisps or something chocolatey to asking for chopped up apple once they realised there was nothing like it in the house and no prospect of them having it.

Why are you giving a 4 year old bottles of milk all of the time. Also you are bombarding him with sugary cereals. Stop buying him chocolate hoops and honey loops and buy Wheatabix, porridge and Shredd d Wheat. Give him a choice of those more healthy cereals. One cup of milk plus milk on cereal and his yoghurts would be appropriate. Also the frequent PomBears, and crisps have no nutritional value at all. I'd not be buying chocolate biscuits either. You'd be better not to buy them in the first place. If he knows you have them in the house he'll just whing and whine for them. If he knows Mummy doesn't have any in the house he'll think of something else he will eat. I think a lot of his issues are caused by the amount of sugar and junk you offer him. In a lot of homes he'd never have tasted this junk in the first place because it's not bought so kids only get offered food that is better nutritionally for them. It will be tough to break the habit but better to do it now than allow it to continue. You have identified he likes toast, pasta, grapes, yoghurt, fish fingers, chips, milk and bananas so he won't starve. I'd offer one of those things he likes at every meal plus other options. Over time he'll likely try a few other things and like them. As long as you continue to offer him sugary cereals and pump him full of milk he won't bother with other food.

Sensible.

Also sensible.

if he refuses family tea don’t cook him a whole separate tea!! If he doesn’t eat your family pasta or wraps then he can leave the table hungry and then have plain toast or weetabix an hour later if he is very hungry.

OP I just wanted to say, it's brave of you to seek help here and it sounds like a daily struggle. I have a DS who is now a teenager but had some severe food allergies and fixations (not all are gone). He went from wanting only to eat bland, beige food to suddenly being super interested and experimental with his choices, around age 7 or 8.

I agree you need to completely stop the bottles. Get him potty trained and have you thought about working with a child development expert on setting up a reward system / food chart so that you can put fruit and veg back in the frame?

It’s really hard OP. Well done for reaching out.

I think it sounds likely he is neurodivergent.

Having said that, I think you need to try implementing a strict menu at home for a short while, largely to see what happens. Don’t offer choice, make meals and serve them. If he doesn’t eat them, make no fuss, clear them away and offer him a healthy snack (fruit, cheese and crackers, natural yoghurt etc) 30-60 minutes later. Keep doing that for a couple of weeks. I suspect you’ll largely know by the end what you are dealing with by the end of that trial.

My ND child would always chose instant dopamine hits (high sugar, high fat, high carbs) over healthy options if available, but actually if those aren’t available and food is kept within a strict framework with very limited choice he’s actually pretty good and will eat most healthy options. However, I’m completely aware he doesn’t have ARFID, which is a whole different kettle of fish. If he’d rather starve then heat healthy options you’ll need professional support beyond standard neurodivergent parenting advice.

My DS was very fussy and had sensory issues with some foods. So no fruits or soft veg. Would only eat crunchy stuff like nuggets, fishfinger and carrot sticks. After doing fishfinger on Christmas day one year I decided it had to change!
So I picked my battles and decided I would introduce roast chicken as I knew he ate chicken because of nuggets. So started off with a bit of roast chicken thighs with crispy skin. Would do this alongside a nugget and say it was a mummy nuggets. He would eat the crispy skin and then I started introducing a bit more meat with the skin and so on. Gradually he came to eat roast chicken.

So I then did the same with fish. Started with crispy skin on salmon and worked our way to eating the fish.

Alongside this I changed nothing else. So did not try to change too many things at once. I also recognised that it was predominantly sensory for him, so I kept with things that didnt trigger. Anything soft flesh like satsumas etc were a no no, so I didn't bother trying those ! He still won't eat those at 20 !

He won’t eat the crap if it’s not there OP

control it or you’re destroying him in so many ways

At 4 I also think he’s old enough for conversations about “sometimes foods” and “always foods”. Some foods taste nice but if you eat too much of them then your body doesn’t feel good and it can become harder to do things you love to do, but “always foods” make you feel good, strong and clever. Etc.

Apple and peanut butter is a great snack and much better than biscuits for mid afternoon.

3/4 yo’s very often get fussy with food. Mine has become the same despite really trying not to let it happen.
I think it sounds as though you keep offering things you know he won’t eat, but then always give in and give him something sweet or something that he’s nagged for. So he’s learned he’ll eventually get what he wants by refusing what you initially offer him.
try a middle ground. Give him something you know he’ll eat first up, along with something he might not eat, and that’s what he gets, no changing it. That way he’ll have something that he will eat, but you’re not giving him other bits he’s asking for, and you’re not constantly begging him to eat what you want him to eat, so it’ll all be more relaxed.
Stop the milk from a bottle, in a cup is fine. Milk will fill him up so might mean he isn’t hungry for the other bits.

I stopped at the 'bottle of warm milk'. Why?

That’s difficult, but it’s not helping really that when he kicks off he gets offered unhealthy options. I wouldn’t even buy them if I were you. There are “healthy” versions that he may like. Eg you don’t have to offer smiley faces, you could offer sweet potato fries.

He ‘refuses’ because he knows a meltdown will get him what he wants, it’s that simple.

That’s an awful lot of UPF, very few vitamins and it’s widely known a poor diet exacerbates behaviour and MH issues.

Time to step up, stop buying this absolute junk and adopt a ‘take it or leave it’ approach, regardless of meltdowns.

I forgot to mention the meltdowns. My DD had those aged 3 for quite a few months. The only thing that worked was to completely ignore them and go about my day as if they were not happening. No response meant that she stopped doing it, completely.