Am I storing up problems by letting him eat whatever he wants?

[foggytea]

Hi. First post and already regretting how exposed this feels, but here goes.

I have a DS who turned 4 in November. He’s my youngest. I also have two older children and they were never like this with food, which is why I’m questioning myself so much.

Some days he eats constantly and asks for food non stop. Other days he barely eats anything at all and refuses most of what I offer. On the days he wants specific things, I usually just give in and give him exactly what he’s asked for. I know how that sounds written down.

He’s always been very strong willed. If he wants something and doesn’t get it, he has full on meltdowns. Crying, shouting, throwing himself on the floor, screaming for the food he’s asked for. If I try to redirect or offer something else, he will flat out refuse to eat anything at all. He will happily go hungry rather than eat something he hasn’t chosen.

When he was a baby he had breathing issues and was on nebulisers on and off until he was about 3. He’s fine now, but I think food became the one area he had some say in very early on, and I’ve never really reset that dynamic.

He refuses all vegetables. I mean all of them. Won’t touch them. If they’re on his plate he pushes them off or says yuck and won’t eat anything else on the plate either. Fruit is hit and miss. He’ll eat grapes sometimes, maybe banana, but most fruit gets refused. If I offer him food instead of him asking for it, he usually says no and then later has a meltdown because he’s hungry but still won’t accept what’s on offer.

He’s not potty trained yet and yes I know at 4 that’s late, we are trying.

He is on the chubby side. Solid, chunky, whatever word fits. Not enormous, but definitely bigger than my older two were at this age.

I wrote down what he’s eaten the last few days and it looks dreadful. But it’s also realistic.

Food log:

Monday:
Breakfast: large bowl of chocolate hoops with full fat milk. Offered porridge first which he refused.
Mid morning: bottle of warm milk
Snack: pack of pom bears
Lunch: offered chicken and veg wraps, refused completely. Ended up with white bread cheese sandwich with butter and a yoghurt tube
Snack: two chocolate digestive biscuits after asking repeatedly
Dinner: fish fingers x3, oven chips. Beans were on the plate but untouched.
After bath: bottle of milk and a chocolate mousse

Tuesday:
Breakfast: refused cereal and porridge. Eventually had two slices of white toast with Nutella
Snack: apple slices offered, ate a couple then refused the rest
Lunch: offered pasta with hidden veg, refused. Had chicken nuggets x4 and smiley faces
Snack: small bag of ready salted Walkers
Dinner: offered bolognese, refused. Had plain pasta with a bit of butter, a few mouthfuls only
Later: meltdown because he was hungry but refused sandwiches and fruit. Eventually had one slice of toast with butter
Before bed: bottle of milk

Wednesday:
Breakfast: bowl of honey cornflakes with milk
Snack: strawberry yoghurt
Lunch: ham sandwich, cheese string. Cucumber offered and refused
Snack: small chocolate bar
Dinner: sausage and mash. Carrots offered, untouched
Pudding: vanilla ice cream
Later: bottle of milk while watching TV

Thursday:
Breakfast: refused breakfast
Mid morning: bottle of milk
Snack: two rich tea biscuits
Lunch: nuggets again (I know), handful of grapes which he did eat after initially saying no
Snack: pack of pom bears
Dinner: frozen pepperoni pizza, ate two slices. Salad offered and ignored
Later: asked for cereal so had a small bowl of chocolate cereal

Today so far:
Breakfast: one slice of toast with butter
Snack: yoghurt pouch
Lunch: offered jacket potato with cheese and sweetcorn, refused. Ended up with half a ham sandwich
Snack: small bag of cheese and onion Walkers after a meltdown because I said no at first

Seeing it written down makes me feel awful. It’s beige, processed, sugary, and very much driven by what he demands rather than what I offer. I do offer other foods first most of the time, but he just refuses and then escalates until I give in or he eats nothing.

He’s very active, always running about, but he is still chubbier than his peers. I don’t want to create food issues or make him feel controlled, but I also feel like I’ve lost control completely and I’m parenting from fear of a meltdown.

Am I being unreasonable to let this continue? Do I need to ride out the meltdowns and stop giving in even if he refuses to eat?

Please be honest but not cruel. This is my first thread and I’m already bracing myself

I would cut down on the milk and snacks and tackle the main meal issue later
DS was very fussy - as an adult recently diagnosed as neuro diverse
He gradually expanded his tastes but it’s all about texture and whether he can manage it or not - but at least he will try anything!

Lots of very good advice on here already.
I'm sure it's quite overwhelming so start small with one thing at a time. It seems like he is addicted to sugar so I would start there.

Most important to remember is that you can't force a child to eat anything, but you can (and must) refuse giving him certain foods.

I have a very spirited 4yr old who point blank refuses many foods too and it's exhausting. He has a sweet tooth and we are limiting treats and swap ultra processed sweets for options that are more nutritious even if they are still high in sugar sometimes (think dried apricots,dates,sultanas, nuts and seeds) and there are also fruit based sweets (FruitFunk and Bear Fruit Rolls, not sure if they have these brands in UK but similar)

We rarely buy sugary cereal (its not such a common thing to eat here but I know its different in the US and UK) but I found the occasions when we did mixing for example Frosted Flakes with Special K helped change his palate.

In our DS it's also a behavior/control thing I think where he really wants to decide stuff for himself. So I very often trick him into thinking he gets what he wants (while I get what I want) by offering him two options and if he refuses to choose I will choose for him. For example: He doesn't want to eat his rice so I say; "You eat either 4 or 5 spoonfuls of rice" (which is how we meet in the middle cause I'm fine with 4 but at least he felt like it was his decision)

Both my DS are very autonomous in lots of ways and oldest DS10 is diagnosed with autism. He has issues with food but eats healthy and balanced, just not very adventurous and everything separated and zero sauces- he is very averse to weird textures, intense tastes etc.
DS4 shows signs of ADHD but no need for diagnosis yet...
Some pp mentioned how being ND is thrown around too easily which might be true, but it's good to know if that indeed is the case so you can adapt your approach. Being ND isnt an excuse for bad eating habits but it changes the way you deal with it.
We push our DS10 to try new things, even a tiny bite, and it mostly results in him gagging but every so often he does like something we never expected with which we can expand his safe foods, a big win!

So lots of trial and error, with or without ND being at play.
Sorry for the long post! Start small and good luck OP! 🍀💪

This sounds tough! I can imagine that your experience in NICU was traumatic and has influenced things. BUT, I wouldn’t give in to his tantrums over food.

Personally, I would never have chocolate cereal, biscuits, nuggets, smiley faces or pom bears in the house. If they aren’t there, then he can’t demand them.

Mine all eat anything so I appreciate I’m lucky. I am very strict on only offering homemade food and avoiding UPFs and anything with added sugar before the age of about three, but I know that this may have been harder if any of them had declined what was on offer.

Arghghgh it does sound tricky.

My two penneth (also have a tricky picky eater)

-Relax, don't make meals a battleground. Pretend you don't care in the slightest what he eats.
-Stop the bottles
-Stop the rubbish foods, gradually if you prefer
-Let him still have control by offering two choices that you are happy with

Yes, when we offer alternative foods we try not to do foods that are more "desirable" than the original - we allow things to be swapped for similar things for example rice for pasta or toast and butter but wouldn't allow her to swap it for her favourite fruit for example.

She's not got a huge sweet tooth either, she's still got 3 of the 5 Easter eggs she got and she still has some of a sweet cone she got at a party a month ago!

Have a play with different tastes my daughter loves anything sour and adding things like capers and sauerkraut to meals.

The best advice I ever received was it is our job to offer food as parents and it is their job as kids to decide how much what they want to eat. This is largely what we follow, we put meals down and there will be something on their plate they do like but we don't make comment on how much or what he eats and if he really doesn't eat anything then the only alternative offered is a bread and peanut butter/normal butter.

Don't get me wrong, I am not some the strict UPF free, organic mum but at least you are acknowledging that his diet is to be frank appalling. Four year olds don't need chocolate cereal, or bottles of milk through the day or constant snacks. I think this is something you are just going to have to ride out. He's tantrumming because he knows it gets him what he wants- unhealthy food and it's a cycle you need to break.

I'd stick with getting rid of the bottles of milk and sugary cereal. Nuggets etc are fine once or twice a week but I'd make a point of sticking to 3 meals a day and two snacks.

Do not have crap food in the house. Simply do not buy it. Do not store it. No one eats it.

That stops 60% of the issue in one swoop.

I know this is CLASSIC Mumsnet of me but I would consider AudADHD. Even just research it to help with tips on how to handle this rather than an armchair diagnosis. I’d say he needs a dopamine fix and does it with food. I’d say he has a need for control and is prone to regression (bottles, nappies) so think about how you can support him there rather than being fixed on mealtimes.

You've got a ridiculous amount of crap food in your house. Get rid of it all and take away the option.

This experiment is interesting around DCs self selecting a healthy diet

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1626509/

However not many UPF in 1920's Chicago

make sure he doesn’t have more than 5 sweet hits per day.
shouldn’t be having bottles; see bottle feeding caries
fluoride varnish and/or fissure sealants cannot overcome a very sugary diet
make sure he’s using a fluoride toothpaste for his age range twice a day
still water as the main drink
I too have a diagnosed autistic child

That is a very “beige” and processed diet. Limit the amount of such you buy and offer healthier alternatives between meals, so that you can not give in. Processed and sugary foods are designed to create a craving for more. It sounds like to could be disordered eating, possibly linked to a health issue or additional need. If he is not at school yet it will be a problem if he behaves like that there, so better to address it now. Do you see Hv or other hcp? Ask if there are any community based healthy eating groups (HENRY was one) which could support you making changes and manage his behaviour while you do so.

I like the term low food interest it’s my youngest too. I also have one that is picky and it’s very different (my picky eater has a varied diet but won’t eat certain textures or food mixed together!) my low interest child just isn’t bothered about eating.

I think there is a middle ground OP. Your child isn’t going to ‘starve’ cos you say no to chocolate biscuits. I think you do need to stop high cal, low nutrient snacks and just offer yogurt or fruit. I’d try giving variety at every meal and just take the plate away if he’s done. I’ve always kept lunch left overs for afternoon snacks for my kids. So for lunch for example, I would offer a couple of pieces of fruit (couple of grapes, few slices of apple, cucumber etc) a sandwich he’s chosen form a choice of available. A slice of cheese and a yogurt. I know he’ll eat something.

I would offer plain pasta and the sauce separate. At least he is eating something.

I know it’s easier said than done… my low interest food kid sometimes barely eats. He won’t sit nicely at the table like my other kids, I have found he often joins us if we just carry on as normal.

I’d be cutting out the bottles of milk. Is he 4 months or 4 years?! Milk isn’t required, it’s just extra calories and sugar for his teeth at night.

As his parent, I think it’s your responsibility to ensure he has a healthy, balanced and appropriate diet for his age, you can’t really be expecting him to regulate his own intake, most youngsters would exist off sweet things if they could.

Obesity and diabetes (and heart conditions) in adulthood isn’t fun, and currently you’re increasing his chances of that. If you want him to be healthy and happy in teens and adulthood, then you need to change your parenting around food and drink.

Is it possible his respiratory conditions as a baby have made you over protective and you’re inclined to continue treating him like a baby? He’s 4, why is he having a bottle?

Ask your GP for a referral to a paediatric dietician so you get medical advice on what food to offer and how to deal with the behavioural aspects around food.

In the meantime clear the cupboards of the sugary cereals, chocolate biscuits, and other sugary snacks - no child (or adult) should be eating these things on a daily basis.

Children tantrum for a few reasons and one is that they have learned that if they do so then their parents may give in. Make changes to his diet slowly and don’t give in - a change of cereals is a good start. Then move onto snacks etc.

Consider why you are giving him a bottle of milk most days. Bottles are terrible for teeth past 1 year of age, so any milk given should be in a cup. Milk is also most likely to be filling him up so he is not hungry enough for other foods that you offer.

Buy a good multi-vitamin gummy for his age group.

I have an extremely fussy eater 10yo and it makes mealtimes awful sometimes, so get help now.

Ask your GP or paediatrician for a referral to a paediatric dietician. Making changes is really important for your son’s long-term health but as you know there’s a lot to change here and you will need help to do this in a way you and your son can cope with. A dietician will be able to help you make a plan. Good luck!

This book helped us a lot- "Getting the Little blighters to eat."

www.amazon.co.uk/Getting-Little-Blighters-Eat-children/dp/1408190745

It's quick to read and simple to follow.

At 4 mine were sitting at the table and eating with the family .... eating what was being served cos that was all that was on offer. If they decided they did not want it then they did not eat.
I know that sounds hard but I could have been making something different for everyone which is impractical. Of course I avoided serving up stuff that I knew was generally disliked but people just ate what was served.
This applied from.very small when I mashed up what we were having.
Tantrums were ignored ... end of.
No encouraging to eat ... just food available on the table and they either ate it or not .... their choice. None of them starved!
Mid morning and afternoon there was a drink and a biscuit if hungry. They knew that was all there was till the next meal.
Negotiating around food is a slippery slope.
It is partly about socialising ... about grasping the fact that family life does not revolve round any one person.
I am sorry thst you find yourself locked in this bind just now, and it will take some tough love to come back from this.

I don't have much advice other than keep trying. Ds was horribly fussy at that age but now he's nearly 9 he's improved loads. The range of food he'll eat has broadened, there's several healthy meals he enjoys and he even eats a few vegetables. Perseverance paid off in our case. The only thing I would suggest it cut out the milk and try to gradually reduce the amount of unhealthy foods in the house. If they aren't there, he can't eat them. If either of mine refuse dinner the only other options are toast or weetabix, I absolutely refuse to cook twice

Switch the milk to semi and offer in a cup. He'll get way less calories and total volume from it

Cut out snacks, if they are desperate then offer the fruit bowl. My 4 year old now will ask if he can have something from ours. We offer an open fruit bowl that they can take from throughout the day. We do have to monitor that it's one type of fruit and not 3 bananas a day kind of thing though.

My 4 year old can be a nightmare and completely refuse a meal. Fine it's left on the table, it doesn't get eaten then he goes without. Harsh but there is always something on the plate he'll like or usually eats. I know he won't die from refusing a meal, then he waits until the next meal. He was 10lb and off the charts at birth. He is still sat around 75% for weight, he is more solid than some of his peers but he isn't overweight. We don't offer alternatives, rarely have a pudding and don't substitute the meal with something else. He gets served what we are all having, sometimes will offer a vegetarian version alongside the meat version. We also found that he doesn't like beige food and actually prefers strong flavour in that he'll eat a mild curry, extra strong mature cheese or add chilli sauce to something. He is 4! But we discovered it by offering the same meal that we were all eating.

Its hard when they start screaming that they are starving but we gently mention how long until dinner, point to the fruit bowl or just acknowledge their feelings whilst mentioning that they refused the last meal.

Get him cooking in the kitchen with you. Make him feel important. Outing in the right amount of olive oil, putting the pasta in the pot, starring the tomato sauce, letting him try it to decide if he thinks it needs more salt and pepper etc

A lot of what he is eating is fortified with minerals and vitamins. Focus on getting some fibre in. Even Nutella and apple slices. It won’t always be like this. Don’t panic. There’s middle ground.

I would t have that crappy stuff in the house for anyone so that’s tricky as he is now aware it exists.
I do think that coupled with the meltdowns and the very late toilet training this could be linked to neurodiversity. I see both those traits in the early years of primary in those children. Looks up the traits and see if they fit.
In the meantime try not serving his plate. Put out food on the table and everyone help themselves.

older Dc used to extremely fussy - but started slow with making our own version of favourite foods.
so made our own chicken nuggets, and our own chips from scratch. First time got a few licks, second time a few bites and so on.
we never forced fruit or veg and they always seemed to have an aversion to it, but we always had it on offer and included in our meals etc.
well once 14 hit DC started to want to try fruit and veg and will go through phases. Still doesn’t seem to enjoy but seems he kind of forces himself to be healthier from learning things at school. So his diet is pretty varied these days. FYI he is on the autistic spectrum and your little one sounds similar - might not be the same but it’s always been a texture thing for ours. He realised one day he likes the flavours, just not keen on a lot of textures. It does mean he now likes when he cooks veg in dishes even if he leaves out the veg.
but he likes soups with veg blended, he also likes home made smoothies with fruit so that’s how he gets most of his fruit and veg in and he knows it is there, we are not hiding it.
oh he also likes humous, that was a beige favourite growing up!

Oh and honey he likes, a more natural sweetener? Maybe some of that added to plain yoghurt ? Or mushed banana?
can make pancakes with banana too (if it’s too enough you don’t need to add sweetness!). Anyway just trying to think of some beige foods that are better than other options?

That diet is awful. Why is he not potty trained and still on bottles?!