Is USA safe to visit?

[perellonuts]

I can’t even believe I’m asking this but is it safe to visit USA now? I’m concerned about the social media issue, I’m pretty sure I’ve liked one or two anti-trump posts each time I’ve doom scrolled since his first term. Could this be used against me? I definitely feel free speech is not tolerated there now. I’d be travelling with my neuro diverse son, age 7. He is perfectly capable with full autonomy and we travel a lot but being separated with no due process would be a disaster and scares the hell out of me. We’ve been invited to go to collect a prestigious award and they put you in a hotel for a few days etc. We have American friends and family and the first hand ICE stories are horrific.

Most of them aren’t currently bombing other countries they aren’t at war with and removing their leaders.

I don’t go to Dubai BTW. Many people don’t. Haven’t been to any of the countries you’ve mentioned in years. And when I do go to dodgy places, I try very hard to stay in locally run hotels or homestays, use local tour guides, shop local and do my best to be an ethical traveller.

@perellonuts As @MrsTerryPratchett says, the world is full of problematic regimes - including, btw, the Maldives.

What does safe really mean anyway? Nowhere is completely safe. Life isn’t completely safe.

In the 21st century, there have been terror attacks in the mainland UK which have killed scores of people; terrorist attacks in France which have killed hundreds. Lethal attacks on Jewish people in Manchester. A massacre of Muslims in New Zealand. The recent massacre of Jewish people on Bondi Beach. I’m guessing you would still go to the UK, France or Australia. It’s no exaggeration to say that the US experiences extreme episodes of gun violence all the time. That’s not a recent phenomenon. People still visit the US.

The reality is that you’re extremely unlikely to get caught up in a episode of lethal violence or political chaos, but you can never entirely rule anything out. The US under Trump is becoming an arbitrary regime which doesn’t respect the rule of law in the way generally expected of modern governments in a democracy. Like Putin, Trump thinks the country is his play thing and he should get to make the rules. But that already applies to loads of fairly mainstream tourist destinations anyway.

That needn’t stop you going. You just need to be aware that no place is risk free.

Of course? Could you say more?

Well yes, because America Land Of The Free used to pride itself on not being like that.

As Rage would say, “Land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy”. And they said that in 1992.

Turkey? Weak democracy, regularly pokes its nose into its eastern neighbours' business, borders Syria, pretty basic attitude to women outside major cities. And the US has been bombing other countries on arguably flimsy grounds since well before Trump. I'm just not sure there are many countries you can honestly travel to if the US offends you that much.

You need to get this into perspective. Nearly 4million British people go to the us every year. That’s loads per day. You are hearing about the handful who are rejected on the news and assume it could be you. Usually they are rejected for reasons other than their social media posts even if they claim that is the reason.
The asking for social media profiles is also not new - I remember having to fill that in for my ESTA over 2 years ago. If your ESTA has been approved (get it done before you buy the tickets to be sure if you are worried) then you should be ok.

Practical tip - if you connect through Dublin / Shannon you can clear US immigration & customs before boarding (weird old concession the ROI has had for donkey's years). Might be worth it to dodge queues on the other side. And the flight time from the Irish airports is shorter anyway. Shannon to NY is not much more than five hours.

@UsernameMcUsername - great tip. @perellonuts - my sister has to travel to the States for work a few times a year. Could be coincidence but she has recently experienced that flying with a US carrier seems to mean you get through border control much more quickly.

You were literally just given an example of this:

@Lisacuddy1 "I had a friend recently tell me she wouldn’t set foot in America due to lgbt rights. She recently went to Dubai 😂😂"

The reason why this draconian approach exists is because too many people have abused the system for too long.

If people were respectful and respected the borders and laws of other countries, the harsh approach that ICE is currently taking would not be necessary.

Sometimes on these threads I think people are having a discussion with someone in their heads, not with me. I said ‘most’ which includes the idea that some are messing with their neighbours. Still not bombing their capitals and removing their heads of state though.

And it’s not about being ‘offended’ by the US. Or not understanding their history. I’d argue that I know more than most about American interventionism it being a personal interest of mine and having travelled a decent amount in Central America.

I think the US is one (with Russia and China) of the most dangerous states in the world right now. Turkey aren’t. Business as usual with them isn’t wise. We’re sleepwalking into WWIII and normal people seem to think it’s normal. What’s happening isn’t normal and we need to treat it seriously.

America is built on undocumented people. AI (and yes I know but it’s quick) says:

If every illegal immigrant in America left today, the U.S. would face severe and immediate economic contraction, widespread labor shortages in key industries, significant fiscal burdens (lost tax revenue and increased operational costs), and profound social disruption.
Economic Impact

• Shrinking GDP: The U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) would decrease significantly. Estimates suggest a potential reduction of 4.2% to 6.8% of annual GDP (trillions of dollars in losses over a decade), a contraction comparable in scale to the Great Recession of 2007-2009.
• Labor Shortages: Industries heavily reliant on undocumented labor would face an immediate and substantial workforce collapse. Key affected sectors include:
• Construction: Loss of up to 1.5 million workers (about one in eight).
• Agriculture: Loss of approximately 225,000 workers (one in eight farmworkers).
• Hospitality: Loss of up to 1 million workers.
• Manufacturing, health care, and warehousing would also experience major losses.
• Inflation and Higher Prices: The severe labor shortages in vital supply chains (like food and housing construction) would lead to decreased production, shortages of goods and services, and a significant increase in prices for all consumers, potentially pushing inflation up by over 9%.
• Job Losses for U.S.-Born Workers: The removal of undocumented workers would not simply create one-for-one job openings for U.S.-born workers. Instead, due to the interconnected nature of the labor force (e.g., fewer framers and roofers means less work for U.S.-born electricians and plumbers), millions of U.S.-born workers would also lose their jobs.
• Loss of Tax Revenue and Spending Power: Undocumented immigrant households paid over $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022 and held over $250 billion in spending power. Their departure would remove this massive economic activity from local communities, further reducing demand and causing businesses to close.
• Fiscal Costs: The actual process of a mass deportation operation would be staggeringly expensive, potentially costing hundreds of billions to a trillion dollars over a decade in federal outlays for arrests, detention, and legal processing.

Social and Humanitarian Impact

• Family Separation: Approximately 4 million mixed-status families, which include an estimated 5.1 million U.S. citizen children, would be torn apart.
• Community Distress: Millions of U.S.-born individuals in mixed-status households would experience immense emotional trauma and economic hardship due to the loss of primary income earners, often plunging them into poverty.
• Disruption of Public Services: Undocumented immigrants pay billions into social safety net programs like Social Security and Medicare, which they largely cannot access. Their departure would reduce the funding streams for these programs.

In essence, a sudden mass departure of all undocumented immigrants would act as a major negative economic shock, severely disrupting industries and communities across the United States.

Just watch/listen to him. Anyone who has seen relatives go through dementia can recognise the signs.

He can barely stay awake.

Agree. I don’t tend to visit countries where I don’t agree with the local laws or politics. Certainly not if I intend to break them. That’s why I’m asking specifically, because I assumed America allowed free speech and I have a vested interest in the politics, am I now potentially at risk from my online negative Trump opinions now things have changed?

We’ve already stopped going for leisure, we’ve put off visiting family for now. Are we not going to collect an award? Yes, I think we are not going to go which seems more definite than just choosing another holiday destination or leaving the MIL for another year. Actively refusing to visit feels disappointing but I’m disgusted with what’s going on over there at the moment. We’ll just celebrate in a different way. We travel a lot, nobody is missing out accept for an in person clap and a few free nights in a hotel.

Friend of mine who is British Indian (third generation born here, but visibly not-Anglo), gets pulled aside every single time for an extra security check at our local regional airport. He's stopped flying from there.

It's so obviously racial profiling, and if it's happening in the UK, it's a fair bet to think that it's happening everywhere!

@MrsTerryPratchett Deportation of illegal immigrants would harm the economy, say wealthy business owners.

Oh no. Then wealthy business owners would have to employ people legally, respect their employment and workplace rights, and pay them a sensible wage.

We have family in the US so we visit regularly. With increasing age we are likely to need to visit more and possibly at short notice, so I make sure I have a current ESTA in case of any delay (not that I've ever had an ESTA take more than 24 hours, usually less than 2).

I last applied for an ESTA last month. The social media question was voluntary and I left it blank.

Although sometimes the officials at immigration can be a bit abrupt, I have never had any problem with rudeness or aggression, which I cannot say about every country I have visited. I smile and am polite whenever dealing with officialdom anywhere. The queues at airports can sometimes be quite long, so I have plenty of time to observe what's going on and I have never seen anyone, of any appearance, be treated aggressively, except when they were hostile to the official first. I've never had my passport thrown at me at the US border as I have in France.

I have only had reason to feel uneasy in the US when I've done something that would make me feel equally uneasy in any country, such as wander into an 'edgy' area. Mostly people are friendly, welcoming and ready to chat to someone with a 'funny' accent!

I mainly visit two states, both 'purple'. I find, from a very small and (I'm sure) non-representative sample, that poorer people tend to be more pro-Trump, saying that things like the cost of living and gangs of non-english-speaking men hanging around threateningly, have improved under him, while some wealthier people are less supportive of him, for a variety of reasons.

And OJ would cost $50 a carton and you’d lose the almost $100 BILLION they pay in taxes.

I agree with fair wages and good conditions. But to do that the US will have to restructure its entire economy.

University staff have been turned back at the border on the basis of SM posts. Not a chance in hell I would go to the States to pick up an award, and I would be telling the organisers why via video link.

It sounds like that would be a good idea.
Using people whilst not allowing them any rights has a lot in common with slavery, or dare I say it prostitution in settings where it is the prostitute rather than the punter who is criminalised.
Some honesty and enlightenment might result.

I wouldn't fly long haul to pick up an award anyway because of the carbon footprint. Maybe you can use that as an excuse with the organisers.

And there it is. Always comes down to the inverse racism of "who will pick our fruit?"

No different to the "who will serve my coffee in Pret" snob from Question Time during Brexit debates, or even Zack Polanski with his "who will wipe my arse?"

I will never understand how the left seem to get away with such obvious racism, expecting migrants to be little more than an underpaid servant class designed to prop up failing economies.

Somehow this kind of racism is progressive and acceptable.

It’s not racism FFS. And although I’d like to report you for it, I think it’s more important to talk about it.

I mentioned OJ because PP didn’t connect with my previous answer about the economy, the taxes people pay, social issues and family breakdown. If they don’t care about any of that (and it came from a post about the brutality of ICE), and they don’t care about the people themselves, the last argument is their own self-interest. Hence, money and shit jobs.

Personally I care about the people themselves. But when I’m arguing with people who don’t, I argue self interest.

It’s not the racism of the left, it’s the self interest of the right.

I get questioned every year at Heathrow when I arrive with my foreign husbamd to visit UK family.