Husband thinks it’s ok to let children change baby’s nappy

[Anonymous236864]

Am I being unreasonable in telling my husband I don’t want him to invite older children to ‘help’ change our baby’s nappy? Sure they can be helpful and bring the wipes over but he instructed an older girl (4yrs old) to rub barrier cream on my daughter. When challenged he said ‘but she likes it’.
I said that even though it’s innocent I don’t want either of these girls to grow up thinking other children or people other than a responsible care giver is okay to touch their private parts. He told me I was being ridiculous. As someone who was sexually abused as a child (an older child would touch me inappropriately) who found out later that these parts are private I really don’t want my child or other children to grow up not realising that private parts are private until it’s too late. Does that sound unreasonable?

Your dh is an absolute knob.... Does he often railroad you and get his own way?

I don't think it's appropriate for an unrelated 4 year old to be applying barrier cream - fine to be helping bring nappies or chat to the baby while nappy is being changed. Does your husband know your history with SA? You need to have a calm conversation about what you're comfortable with and what you're not when it comes to your own child.

agreed. Your husband is at best a fucking idiot OP, at worst I would be concerned about leaving him unsupervised with children.

It’s ok to ask an older sibling to bring something/ hold something.
It’s absolutely inappropriate for anyone but a sibling to be involved in any way, even to stand and watch. If I were a parent of this child I would be furious.

From the thread title I thought it might be about an older sibling (11 yo upwards) changing the baby, and thought if they'd been taught how to do it properly by a parent and supervised it would be fine, but what you are talking about is not appropriate at all. Your own 4 yo wanting to 'help' is fine, but not actually doing any of the intimate care, but someone else's child doesn't need to be involved at all.

Kids can help with all sorts of things. They can also "help" with lots of things, i.e., be involved in some way that entertains and amuses them, but doesn't actually contribute to getting the task down (or hinders the process). When you do that, you are turning the task into a game, and that's fine. But changing nappies... that's a thing that just needs to be done for the comfort of a baby, and I don't think "let's have a go at rubbing cream on baby's bits" is the sort of task that can or should be treated as a game for small children. If nothing else, they don't have the coordination - most of them can't manage to stroke a dog without being awkward, they shouldn't be practising fine motor skills on a baby's genitals 😬

I would not allow this, maybe bringing over clean cloths or nappies but I never allowed nappy change to be a spectator sport for children or adults.

It also wouldn’t be ok if it was a sibling in my opinion. Although, having had to deal with CSA, I learnt a lot about safeguarding and you are right that it’s not safe to teach either child that’s it’s ok to touch others’ privates/have someone else touch theirs.

In my experience, people who have been through SA quite often downplay red flags to themselves possibly because they are always trying not to overreact as a consequence of their trauma.

YANBU OP. Also, I wouldn’t be happy as the other child’s parent as they’re quite young to distinguish between this innocent touching of private parts/areas and the not innocent kind.

I wouldn’t let my 2yo toddler help change my baby beyond things like passing me the pack of wipes and pressing the sticky tabs down. She knows the private parts song and will actually say occasionally “Baby’s name’s private parts” if she sees me doing a change.

I don't think there's anything wrong with including an older sibling as part of the circle of trusted people who can provide intimate care. The important thing is that as parents you decide who will be included in that circle carefully and in agreement with each other, then hold to that boundary.
I think in this case your wishes override your husband's, as there is no benefit to either child that the 4 year is involved in every part of the care, it makes you uncomfortable, and the older child can help in ways you're comfortable with.

“She enjoys it” ? Massive red flag op.

I think it's ok to ask the child to fetch wipes or nappy etc, but wiping the baby and applying barrier cream should be done by the adult in charge to ensure it's done properly. A 4yo is still very young and shouldn't be sticking their fingers in another child's private parts. Aside from any hygiene concerns, they could hurt the baby if they have sharp fingernails, or if they're not gentle enough.

Big red flag. Absolutely grim. At best he’s an idiot who doesn’t understand/care about safeguarding, at worst he’s got bad intentions…

YANBU OP. Tell him this makes you really uncomfortable and whether he agrees this is a two parent agreement situation where either one of you can disagree and the other has to accept it. This is a safeguarding issue and he needs to accept that.

Your boundaries also need to be respected so that you are comfortable with the care that is given to your baby and so that you feel safe.

Taking this slightly to one side.. if you were to say, 'I only want the baby's parents to change his nappy'. Then that should be respected by your husband, even if his sister / cousin / neighbour is totally relaxed withe aunties / uncles / cousins / friends changing nappies.. that is their choice not yours.

Your boundaries, responses and expectations are based on your experiences which may be different to his experiences. I believe that your response is proportionate and correct.

If you felt the need to explore this more deeply, you could chat to someone about it so that you gain confidence in asserting your wishes and perhaps if necessary, joint counselling to ensure that your husband understands and complies.

Absolutely with you on this. I wouldn't even allow a sibling to touch the private parts of their younger brother or sister. We bring our children up to understand that your private parts are yours, no-one should be touching them without your consent etc. This situation would be blurring those lessons. I can't see it as comparable as a nursery worker changing a nappy as they have to do that as part of their duty of care.

YANBU. Its not 'helping', it's not a skill any four year old needs, and the baby doesn't need all kind of random unrelated people changing their nappy. You keep that to a minimum.

I think he went too far

Yeah it’s weird for a random child to put cream on your baby. I would not be ok with this.

Former educator and social services worker here and I agree. This is basic common sense. I had two older brothers and thankfully nothing bad happened at their hands or anyone else’s but sibling/peer abuse isn’t uncommon. We don’t want to be encouraging children related or otherwise to be touching other people’s genitals.

My DD helped changed her younger brothers nappies and helped take them to the toilet. I had 4 boys under the age of 5, the youngest of whom were twins and I was glad of the help tbh! I didn’t force her to do it, just to be clear! She was 10 when the twins were born so I took that as her having reached the age of discretion.

As I said prior it makes him sounds like a pervert.

This is fucking grim. I'd be massively concerned that your husband is a paedophile. If he's not a paedophile at best he sees all females as caregivers? Would he encourage a 4 year old boy to do the same.

Those saying they'd allow a sibling to do this seriously need educating on the rates of sibling abuse too. Only adult caregivers should be doing this. I'd suggest a chat with NSPCC around your thoughts on this and your husband's burning red flags.

How did she help though? Was she wiping and smearing cream on their genitals?

No way would I have wanted my 4 year old doing this OP, I would be really upset and pissed off if she'd been instructed by a grown man to rub cream on another child's genital area. Nor would I be happy for it to be done to my baby. I don't understand why your DH thinks it is OK.