What is the Mumsnet consensus on P&C spaces?

[JacquesHarlow]

As per many people, I’ve been out at supermarkets and retail parks around 8 times this Christmas. 5 of those in Surrey, one in Wythenshawe, the rest in the Newcastle area.

My DCs are not toddlers any more so I don’t have the same “will the door open wide enough to take out the car seat and plug it into the pram system” dilemna.

However I have huge empathy for the mothers (and on occasion dads) who I do see doing this. There’s a lovely convenience to parking in a bay where you can pull the pram alongside, open the door wide enough, then take out the seat and baby in one go.

So why is it that on all eight occasions, I’ve seen large SUVs with a solo occupant, the majority of them women, pull into a P&C bay, walk out, and then shoot that filthy “I dare you to challenge me” look?

it is honestly fascinating to me to see how often this happens now. These folk are not in any way visually disabled or physically showing any signs of disability, although if they were, there were numerous disabled spaces available in every car park I saw this happen in.

Nope, these were people who just wanted “premium” parking. They were blatant about it. There were no elderly passengers, hidden disabilities or anything else.

Am I going to get the usual Mumsnet gaslighting of “you don’t know what a person is going through” or are we going to accept that people are CFs who want to take anything that is available to someone else in case they feel like they’re the ones missing out?

I am curious to see if the overwhelming consensus on Mumsnet is that because we had to struggle without the spaces, then NO ONE deserves to have them. That we shouldn’t make life more comfortable for mums and dads with newborns and toddlers, because those spaces really should be for everyone.

so let’s see

YABU - Those spaces shouldn’t be for parents. They should be for everyone

YANBU - Those people who selfishly park there are wrong and this is why we can’t have nice things.

But what difference does your situation make really? A stranger challenges you or doesn’t. You respond accordingly. You haven’t really made a point because you have a reason to be there.

can you really not see why a busybody wouldn’t question someone in a p&C space with no children? Some people live for this opportunity to be righteous

I dont know why you are being snippy. You expected there to be an exemption for you. You asked how parking enforcement would handle you parking in a p&c space, with no blue badge and no children...
My answer was they'd deal with you as if you were a person parking in bay with no right to do so - because you were.
That's not to say you didn't need to, but from an enforcement point of you it is black and white.

I’m entitled to a reasonable adjustment on the grounds of my disability regardless of whether or not I have a BB. That would be an interesting court case and I would love to take it.

If you want the overwhelming consensus on MN go read any of all of the million other threads on this rather than starting your own. You know what you are doing.

There are no fines for P&C spaces as they are not a legal requirement, unlike BB spaces.

Some supermarkets will send out invoice fines, and the enforcement of them in the UK will very much depend on which part you were in.

Generally shops don't care who parks in the P&C spaces as they are a marketing gimmick designed to tempt people into their shop. As long as the person parked in the space is spending money they have done their job.

Either make all spaces bigger or move the P&C spaces away from the front entrance. You got a child not a disability. You can walk an extra 20m. Problem solved.

The irony is, I was TOLD by Tesco customer services to park in the P&C space until I got my BB when their security man saw me struggling.

That depends on the car seat.

Lie flat car seats are still really quite rare, plus many lie flat seats are still subject to the two hour recommendation as they are not truly flat in the same way as a carrycot or crib.

Oh. I thought I was entitled to park there!

It definitely doesn’t say your children HAVE to be young or even with you. Mine are young adults but meh - I’ve still got ‘em

Honestly Tesco couldn't care less. I don’t know why you’re determined to know what they’d do. Nothing.

Well if you own a big SUV you genuinely need extra space so…

Ours was fully lie flat, it's a shame they are rare they're extremely safe and better for the baby's breathing.

I’m not disabled enough for a blue badge, but I am mobility impaired. On a bad day, if I can’t park near the supermarket entrance then I can’t use the supermarket. And all the spaces near the entrance are either blue badge (which I legally cannot use) or P&C. So yes, I sometimes park in a P&C space in a bad day. Do I have less right to be able to access the store than someone who chose to have children?

I wonder if the P&C spaces should be a bit further away from the shop so they aren't seen as premium spaces. It's an offence to park in disabled spaces but there is no sanction for pillocks. Parents with disabled children will have blue badges and can use the disabled spaces, other parents could just walk a bit further.

Indeed.

This thread is making me feel very old as parent and child parking spaces really weren't a thing (I think maybe they existed in a few places but certainly weren't at all common) when my kids were babies (now adults) and we managed just fine. The difference I think is cars are so, so much bigger and wider now, massive SUVs are the norm for most people particularly for transporting kids, and it's normal to drive everywhere, but car parks have exactly the same number of spaces and same width as 20 or 40 years ago. When mine were little we didn't have a car at all for a lot of the time, and then we had a tiny 3 door hatchback - we walked to every day shops, and if/when we drove further afield I honestly don't ever remember struggling with car seats or getting kids in and out of the car in normal car park spaces - car seats definitely were also much smaller back then and people were less strict e.g. about holding the baby in your lap while you drove off which I know today would be an absolute no. If I'd really needed to I also would have felt fine about giving the baby to a passing stranger to hold/keep an eye on in their pram while I manoeuvred the car in/out of a tight space, again I don't think you'd do that today.

I do completely agree that people shouldn't use them if they don't have kids with them, but I do also think they need to be treated as a a nice to have as there's never enough of them to guarantee every parent can get one. So if you have a big wide car and a huge bulky car seat that you truly cannot get the baby into/out of in a normal space, and no other means of carrying the baby e.g. pram, sling, someone else to hold, you probably need to be prepared to not drive to the shops alone, or not at busy times anyway?

Tesco etc is private property so it’s not an offence to park in a BB bay there either. They could ticket or tow if they wanted, but no idea whether they do.

Ours was fully lie flat, it's a shame they are rare they're extremely safe and better for the baby's breathing.

It's only the recent ones that have remotely good safety ratings. The first batch of lie flat seats were appalling in safety terms. Some are still considerably sub standard to even average RF seats.

That's a discussion for another thread right enough, don't want to derail this one!

Parent and child car spaces should just be for children who need help getting in and out of the car. Hate it when I see a child age 10+ coming out a car when I’m struggling in a regular space with my toddler! Even worse is someone who’s on their own but has a huge car!

As per many people, I’ve been out at supermarkets and retail parks around 8 times this Christmas.

erm no, I havent been out 8 times, or even close. I think this is a much bigger issue that P& bloody C parking. Maybe try going out less, plan better, think of the environment and there wouldn’t be a parking issue would there?

Haha
and people wonder why some think SUV drivers are selfish.

Which supermarket are you going (or places where they have P&C spaces) where you can’t fit your car in a standard space?

I don't disagree with you. Blue badges are issued to help with that and you have one now.

Whilst you waited, if the rules of the car park aren't being enforced then its only your own judgement on your need to use the space that you need to worry about.

But you were responding to pp about q tesco issuing fines to those parked in p&c bays without children or a blue badge and how they might handle your circumstances.

In that case, even if you felt you needed to use the bay, you should expect a fine which you'd be free to contest

My need for a disabled Space doesn't disappear when I forget my blue badge but my right to use a disabled bay without getting a fine does.

It's not such a tricky concept 😆

Now that your badge has arrived you can look forward to being constantly frustrated at all those who park in BB bays without a badge!

I agree that I don't wish to derail the thread, however feel it only fair to respond. The one we chose was actually rated safer than most regular car seats that do not have the lie flat option. I think they have a bad reputation, but in safety terms this is not warranted. In terms of breathing they are far, far safer too.

My best friend just looks really worried and says 'I can wait with the baby if you need' when seeing people park without a child. I wish I had her balls but it's sad how often she gets sworn at.

P&C spaces started as a customer friendly offering with absolutely no statutory regulation behind them at all. They are purely for the convenience of customers and whether they are used correctly depends on all the customers.
Similar to the old ‘9 items or less’ checkouts. Once people work out no one gives a shit or will actually do anything if you ignore the rules then it’s anarchy.
The bottom line is that retailers don’t want to piss any of their customers off. And that includes the people with very large expensive cars parked in P&C to ensure they don’t get their door pinged by some other idiot.