What is the Mumsnet consensus on P&C spaces?

[JacquesHarlow]

As per many people, I’ve been out at supermarkets and retail parks around 8 times this Christmas. 5 of those in Surrey, one in Wythenshawe, the rest in the Newcastle area.

My DCs are not toddlers any more so I don’t have the same “will the door open wide enough to take out the car seat and plug it into the pram system” dilemna.

However I have huge empathy for the mothers (and on occasion dads) who I do see doing this. There’s a lovely convenience to parking in a bay where you can pull the pram alongside, open the door wide enough, then take out the seat and baby in one go.

So why is it that on all eight occasions, I’ve seen large SUVs with a solo occupant, the majority of them women, pull into a P&C bay, walk out, and then shoot that filthy “I dare you to challenge me” look?

it is honestly fascinating to me to see how often this happens now. These folk are not in any way visually disabled or physically showing any signs of disability, although if they were, there were numerous disabled spaces available in every car park I saw this happen in.

Nope, these were people who just wanted “premium” parking. They were blatant about it. There were no elderly passengers, hidden disabilities or anything else.

Am I going to get the usual Mumsnet gaslighting of “you don’t know what a person is going through” or are we going to accept that people are CFs who want to take anything that is available to someone else in case they feel like they’re the ones missing out?

I am curious to see if the overwhelming consensus on Mumsnet is that because we had to struggle without the spaces, then NO ONE deserves to have them. That we shouldn’t make life more comfortable for mums and dads with newborns and toddlers, because those spaces really should be for everyone.

so let’s see

YABU - Those spaces shouldn’t be for parents. They should be for everyone

YANBU - Those people who selfishly park there are wrong and this is why we can’t have nice things.

This is the best way forward. We should be pushing for bigger spaces. I have 3yr old twins, I'll happily park in the furthest area of the carpark if I can't get a p&c space on the first go around. But I still have to compete with the "I don't want my car dented brigade" who park that far out. Then struggle with them walking all the way to the shop to find no double trolleys. Parking should be easy for everyone! Cars for bigger and spaces got smaller

Why would they do this though?

if they increased all spaces to 1.5 the size they would lose 30% of their customer capacity??

They probably wouldn't, because when people can't get a space that's useful they leave. Therefore they lose money anyway. I've been in plenty of shopping centres that have wider spaces and just as many. Why should we have to squeeze in and out of a car. Regardless of who's in the car.

That’s not true at all, most people just use the usual bays 😂 are you suggesting that people ignore the 300 normal bays and drive elsewhere if the 6 P&C ones are occupied?!

They're just unnecessary. We don't have them in high street parking, in council carparks, hospital carparks etc. I've no idea why supermarkets provide them.

The vast majority of people know they are completely unnecessary as every parent is perfectly able to get their child out of a normal space hence people use them as normal spaces even without a child in tow.

She needs to get a hobby.

I'm suggesting normal people who want a normal bay do leave yes. I didn't say because they couldn't get a p&c bay. I know plenty of people who have complained and left a carpark due to not being able to get out of their car in a FULL carpark doesn't have to have 300 bays.

Have a wander round a Tesco car park and have a look at the signs. You will see that they warn of a £70 fine for anyone parking in a P&C space without accompanying children under whatever the age is. This has been the case for a while now. I don't know how many, if any, people are prosecuted. It doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent where I live though but they can prosecute you because it's not your right to park in their car park at all and they can put conditions on you parking there.

Yes so that does mean- as I originally said- if they only had half the number of bays they would lose custom.

which is why they won’t do it

But your missing they lose it anyway if none of the bays are suitable. You know someone takes up 2 by just crossing the white line. You can't get out because they're on an angle. You obviously spend less time in a car park than I do 🤷🏼

I’m sure I don’t 😂 it is bizarre in the extreme to suggest everyone, or even a sizeable number of people, leave when they can’t get a wide space or chose to take up 2 spaces 😭

haven’t you seen how full the car parks were over Xmas? They didn’t drive off when they couldn’t get their special space did they?

Many blocks of parent & child parking spaces are closer to the entrance to the supermarket than disabled bays. Speaks volumes about their target market, doesn’t it.

I’m a blue badge holder and, if all the disabled bays are occupied, I freely admit I’ll park in a p&c space. I’m not sorry about it either.

I’d tell her she can take my disabilities any day she likes.

To me, using the space when you don’t need to is a similar attitude to queue jumping or something “my needs are more important, fuck everyone else”

ETA - to be clear, by “need” I’d absolutely include a blue badge holder.

I prefer the parent and child spaces as it makes my life a lot easier but if not I use one of the other spaces. It’s like saying I use the scan as you shop checkout as it makes my life easier but if it’s not working, we do it the normal way. Why wouldn’t I make my life a bit easier if I could.

Just before Christmas at Tesco, I was walking back to my car with a trolley full and a toddler who had very much finished with shopping and not happy about staying sitting in the trolley and I saw a couple in their 50’s ish and and a 20 ish your old son/man. It did grate on me as they jumped into the car and drove off while I was juggling all of the above and then have to walk back round with my toddler to put the trolley back.

I’m not but other people are saying I’ll get a fine. How would that work? When they told me to park there!

I have noticed this too, but P&C spaces tend to be right next to the path. If you have multiple young children, then it is safer for them to be standing on the path right next to the shop whilst you unload the others than it would be for them to be standing in the middle of the car park.

And not all BB holders need to be right next to the entrance either. For many, they just need the extra room.

Maybe a mix of P&C spaces/BB spaces further away from the entrance would be the way to go, as well as the ones close to it.

I'm not suggesting we need special spaces. I'm suggesting bigger. Average space has 6 inches either side if parked centrally. If you honestly believe that's enough so be it. I don't even think p&c spaces should be a thing. There a novelty unlike a BB space which my nan needs. I'd rather bigger spaces and more BB than more p&c
Edited to add:
Yes I have had to leave when I couldn't get a space for my disabled nan. Because she can't get out in a normal space!

The best way to stop the selfish gits is to put the P&C spaces further away from the store entrance

They’re not saying YOU will get a fine. They’re saying tescos can fine people who park outside of the conditions of their car park.

My opinion about parent and child spaces is that they are a combination of a sop to planners and something for the retailer or retail park owner to try to look good. No intention of ever seeking to enforce them directly or indirectly.

The use by people without children especially in SUVs is because either they cannot drive and park to an adequate standard, or because of the many others who cannot, or both. Car park bays are not designed for the proportion of SUVs and other large vehicles that are on the roads today.

SUVs and higher performance cars should be a separate category of car licence, with higher standards to meet.

I have a 2yo and have used a P&C space precisely once.

I think fussing over access to them is rather silly and extremely undignified. It's not that hard to deal with a non P&C space. In fact, I prefer them.

Why can’t people be nice? To me it’s that simple.

Im grateful I don’t need a disabled bay so wouldn’t use one. Similarly I don’t have a pushchair that needs that extra space, motherhood is wild esp in those first few months/years I don’t need that space give those that do that tiny bit of help that possibly makes a huge difference to their day.

I can walk so I should.

my friend returned home once in tears that she couldn’t park in a bay and it was really with a new born and it was just too much. Some people genuinely need these spaces.

They make life so much easier to take a baby/young child out and about to have the extra space for the car seat. When I was pregnant with DD2 and had really bad PGP, and also had to help DD in and out of her car seat, I actually don’t think I’d have managed by myself if i couldn’t park in a P&C space.
My DC are 10 plus now so wouldn't dream of parking in a P&C space because I don’t need it.

Maybe they should have two sets of them. Some near the store and some down the far end of the carpark which would deter those that are simply too lazy to walk

I’m using them at the moment because my health has taken a downturn and I’m having to use a wheelchair, so I need a bit more space to get in and out of the car. I can’t park in the BB spaces because I haven’t got a BB (I can normally manage so don’t need it). I have had a couple of glares but, to be fair, nobody has continued once the chair comes out. If I’m staying in the car, or there are no P&C spaces available so I have to stay in the car and send DH in, then so be it, it’s a standard space.

I think it’s so subjective. Someone whose car seat doubles as a push chair is obviously going to need extra space. We don’t need more space when we’ve got a three year old with us, so don’t tend to use them. But he’s not a bolter. Someone with a bolter might need that space. I’m not convinced that fit and well children up to the age of 12 always need that space. It’s not a one size fits all thing, so that means that some people who don’t need it are going to benefit or people who do need it will have to lose out.