I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

I don't think trust would be a casualty of a blunt comment along those lines.

These women are both adults. I dont think it would be unreasonable at all to expect the daughter to deal with being told that her mother is to a large extent faking the interest she has shown up to now in the deep exploration of abstract topics.

If the daughter considers this to be the entire basis of the relationship, and can't imagine any other way for the two of them to connect, then that's a problem that needs to be dealt with, possibly in a family therapy setting.

If the daughter really can't see how inflicting shop talk on someone who doesn't have the same level of interest or the education to engage wholeheartedly in it, then I'd consider that the daughter might be ND.

Imagine a daughter who is an engineer and insists on bringing materials science into conversations on simple household tasks, or a daughter whose academic interest is Japanese prison camps of WW2 and you end up discussing that instead of a nice holiday mutual friends had in Japan a few weeks ago. It doesn't improve matters that philosophy and theology are topics that a lot of people have some innate inkling about. The OP and her daughter are failing to connect in their conversations because the level of discourse isn't happening on the level the vast majority of people expect in everyday conversation with a family member, outside of the academic context.

Your daughter sounds great. I find small talk dull, exhausting, and a waste of time . . . horses for courses. You clearly have very different personalities. But she's trying to have these conversations with you because she values your views and wants to get to know you and has assumed you have some depth of thought.

There are so many pitfalls trying to talk to people. Conversation definitely is an art, as is listening. I think your daughter sounds like she’d have fascinating things to say so maybe listen and if she asks questions say you don’t know and encourage her to tell you more.
My DH really struggles with small talk and is much more at ease with abstract subjects - he does rugby, history or politics - the last two are fine, the first a bit more challenging for me!

This is a very interesting thread and seems to have grafted off into a few directions;

• PPs that identify with OPs DD, “I am a bit like that”.
• PPs who have suggested ways in which OP can heal DD, avoid the conversation and/or wait until DD reaches maturity and understands that OP does not want to have that level of interaction with her DD.
• PPs that put everything down to ND.
• PPs that suggest DD is exercising superiority over her DM, to belittle her perhaps?

I could go on! Clearly what OP is experiencing is a problematic to her and maybe also for DD.

There are, always will be and always have been deep thinkers. Think; Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Freud, Issac Newton, Karle Marx, Nietzsche, Weil, Camus, Orwell (OMG, this list is making me salivate. I will stop there). Where would we be without them? For some considerations and contemplations at this level are just normal, for others light chit chat is enough and also fulfilling.

Personally, I hope OPs DD, follows her train of thought as far as she can. We do need to consider the bigger picture, the how’s and the whys of life. Fascinating!

We do need to consider the bigger picture, the how’s and the whys of life.

No we don’t, if we don’t find that interesting.

If there’s a possibility OP’s daughter’s ND, likely OP is too and they just feel opposite of each other.

We also don’t know how her daughter actually is. In OP’s perspective, her daughter is exhausting and she could well be that to her but she could also not be in the same breath to others no different if one was at a family gathering and one saw someone being a certain way and another saw it differently.

You do bring up a good point. Perhaps, calls are not for them and I wonder how the lunch went where her daughter shared her feelings and was she doing the same behaviour at lunch as she does in the phone.

People are different and that's ok. I'm not a fan of small talk but I do it usually because it's how people begin to connect. I don't enjoy it much. I'm utterly boring to most people so I make an effort to lighten it. But I don't suppress my boring-ness. I know people can find constant intensity difficult - I do, and I'm the often intense one. All you can do is try to find a balance, and that takes both of you to find a way to meet in the middle and take an interest in each other. There's no overnight solution, it's something that takes consistent work.

What is not ok is people on here hanging judgement on either one of you.

My daughter once asked me to proof read a paper with the comment “you won’t understand the science, but you’re a good proof reader”! Readers, I thoroughly understood the science and have never let her forget it 😁

These women are both adults. I dont think it would be unreasonable at all to expect the daughter to deal with being told that her mother is to a large extent faking the interest she has shown up to now in the deep exploration of abstract topics.

I think its all in the delivery. It’s one thing to be told that she can’t wang on ad nauseam on an esoteric subject. Essential even. But say “you’re boring me” is pretty blunt.

I would have been gutted if either of my parents had said that to me about something I was really fired up about.

OP, your dd sounds like hard work.

Ask her to give you an agenda before your calls so you can read up and formulate your thoughts in advance.

MNLurker1345 who wrote:
There are, always will be and always have been deep thinkers. Think; Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Freud, Issac Newton, Karle Marx, Nietzsche, Weil, Camus, Orwell (OMG, this list is making me salivate. I will stop there). Where would we be without them? For some considerations and contemplations at this level are just normal, for others light chit chat is enough and also fulfilling.

What you don't see, and possibly OP's DD doesn't see, is that we would be absolutely fine without them. (Perhaps with the exception of Isaac Newton.) They are, more or less, intellectual luxuries. Or vanities.

Also, you seem to be implying is that there is nothing much between these philosophies of these salivary stimulants, and what you call 'light chit chat.' Which is a bit arrogant.
There is very much in between- almost everything in between. Today I have discussed with a biochemist the impossibility of making vegan Yorkshire puddings, and the fortune awaiting him should he pause his protein stability investigations to invent a way of mass producing them, books, the clearness of the moon tonight, rose pruning, the errors that come with reported conversations, and half a dozen interesting, bonding, cheerful things. I don't know if anyone ended up very much the wiser, but I'm pretty sure that nobody was particularly bored.

Agree that we don't!

Or we could ponder it once and be done with it. It's not something that needs to be thrashed out ad infinitum/ nauseum/ in the course of every single conversation.

Just because someone's 'passion' is debating how many angels could fit on the head of a pin doesn't mean someone else has to stifle yawns during every phone call and pretend to appreciate the topic, just in order to feign connection. Fake connection leaves you feeling empty and it is soul destroying.

It's not that deep.

I personally hope the DD goes the distance with her thoughts - in her academic career.

I hope she and the OP will find a way to genuinely connect, because they are ships passing in the night as things stand, and the OP is clearly not happy with that situation. If the DD hasn't noticed that, then the problem really is a broader one than just the topic of 'conversation' itself, and bigger questions need to be answered about social cues, communication skills - basically, ability to 'read the room'.

The topic itself is a red herring that a good few people here seem to have got hung up on.

Agree with this totally.

Isaac Newton's mom is said to have been cold and distant, she probably had no time for his musings either. Marx' mom Henriette was known to be snobby and Socrates' mom was actually a midwife so she probably had some interesting stories to tell.

I think you did her a favour. It is very likely her friends feel the same way and you will hopefully make her think on when speaking to other people.

She sounds ace!

hmm, you seem to have a good relationship for a simple “all right, I bail out!” To get her to unclick her overthinking mode…

LOL just find a nice way to settle this.

You can also at the beginning say that you only have 10min for tchat now but you can call her in the next week end longer so that asap it starts to be weary, you warned her you need to go.

”Darling, I love you very much but I don’t know” could do too? She seems to be close to you so would care to not make you feel
that way.

If everyone around her is like that…she might not realise. Or maybe she enjoys her thinking tactics with you?

All in all. You will be fine :)

Oh here we go..

I defo side with the person experiencing closely what she does.

Again, she sounds ace!

She sounds like a fab Daughter , She doesn't need to go to any church or anywhere to believe in our Lord , her thoughts are her own and maybe doesn't want to share.You sound a loving kind mum .As long as she is happy safe loved and knows you are there for her always thats all that matters.She will talk when she is ready .She may be gay she may be pregnant she may be just content but im sure when she is ready she will confide in you if she doesn't or if she just is trying to find her way by asking questions don't worry. As my mum always said it will all come out in the wash .And speak to her how your feeling and I'm sure you both will work it out

TBH, I'd just order them from Ocado. www.ocado.com/products/the-real-yorkshire-pudding-co-4-large-gluten-free-yorkshire-puddings/421582011?srsltid=AfmBOoo1HSnqo8gsemOfscRYI5mwplbwC5X7DOolaLbINJFrulhyS0BX

😂

No you wouldn't:

Ingredients
Pasteurised Egg White, Skimmed Milk, Maize Starch, Pasteurised Whole Egg, Potato Starch, Rapeseed Oil, Maize Flour, Tapioca Starch, Emulsifiers: (Lecithin, Mono and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids), Salt, Stabiliser: Xanthan Gum

Those aren’t vegan, but it seems to be possible.

Vegan Yorkshire puddings: https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/recipes/starters-snacks-and-sides/yorkshire-pudding

I make vegan Yorkshire puddings but couldn’t tell you the recipe as I am from an area where we don’t use recipes for Yorkshire’s as we learn by the feeling of the batter when we hand mix the ingredients. Soya milk Vegan butter flour and vegan egg