I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

I think this says rather more about your own insecurities than the OP's daughter.

Really?! Get a grip.

Again, I think this says more about you than anyone else.

Bit of a stretch 😂

Whatever. Keep spouting.

It is an autistic trait to.not be able to follow normal rules of social reciprocity in conversation

Maybe she isn't Nd but she is definitely in need of some back and forth skills about enjoying different types of communication with people

I also wonder if she is enjoying feeling a bit superior. Why otherwise deliberately move away from other lighter chats when her mum prefers a wider range of chat.

I agree. There’s no good reason to keep asking someone questions you know they don’t have the answer to.

Just tell her you’re more interested in what is going on on her life than mulling over whatever big topic she wants to get into, op. That’s what my mum did with me - repeatedly, until it sank in.

I agree with others that learning to adapt your conversation to your audience is a skill that comes with greater maturity.

Please also ignore those posters suggesting your daughter is a bore or trying to come across as cleverer than she is. Absolute rubbish. She evidently has plenty of people around her who enjoy this sort of conversation. But it doesn’t have to be you!

I would suggest calling her when you know you have to go do something in 5-10 minutes. You then let her be herself but it’s capped.

Think of things you have to do before you call.

• I’m meeting xxx in 10
• I’ll have to go the dinner is due out of the oven
• The bath needs turning off.
• Oh, there’s someone at the door…

She’ll soon realise the calls are short so she’ll learn to make sure she gets to tell you the most relevant parts and leaves out the waffle before you sign-off.

She'll soon realise that her mother isn't interested in talking to her for more than a couple of minutes and stop bothering that way.

No need to ask her opinion about anything 'deep' in the future, like motivations for behaviour that's a red flag, no need to bother asking her opinion about marriage or children, no need to bother visiting with or without kids as Mum makes excuses to get off the phone after a couple of minutes every time, so she's not going to want to spend an hour with her and the kids, etc, etc.

Oh, that's me telt.

What's the issue with that term?

My mum ALWAYS has to go to the toilet after about 10 minutes being on the phone. I don’t take it personally because I know she doesn’t actually like being on the phone and would rather chat in person. In fact I’m waiting for her to say it so I can get off too! 😂 But, I know she’d be 100% disappointed if I never called at all. She likes to keep in touch but for 10 mins at a time. Works for us!

I mean you can not believe it all you like but it may be the case, no one here can really know.

Ultimately you might just be mismatched in conversation. Those saying she needs to adjust to you, why? Why shouldn't you learn to discuss with more depth? Small talk is a slow painful death to some. She may be saying to BF I dread talking to my shallow mother she never wants to talk about anything at depth.

Perhaps phone catch-ups aren't how you guys should communicate

I have a child like this - why is it exhausting you? Are you not able to follow a train of thought or are you a shallow person? I think quite deeply and love talking and learning when I converse with my child.

Just admit your lack of ability to delve deeper or follow her train of thought - let her know how much you love her but admit your shortcomings so she knows your “lack” of interest isn’t intentional - you just can’t follow her in those conversations.

You sound like you care deeply but are exhausted by not being able to follow. Just let her know in a face to face conversation if you can.

There's a fine line between supportive and enabling.

Tell her she's boring the pants off you, that your interest in her special subjects is not on her level, but that this does not mean you're rejecting her. Emphasise your interest in her as a multi dimensional human being, separate from your relative lack of interest in the details and nuances of her academic interests.

Has anyone ever considered whether autism is playing a part in this?

I think your daughter sounds great, I’d like a friend like her.

I am also very naturally curious about the world, I hate small talk with a passion. It’s so empty and feels like a waste of my time even engaging in it.

Or maybe people who should all fuck all effort to have a conversation, and usually never ask a question of the other person let alone of the universe, should make an effort?

Tell her she's boring the pants off you, that your interest in her special subjects is not on her level, but that this does not mean you're rejecting her. Emphasise your interest in her as a multi dimensional human being, separate from your relative lack of interest in the details and nuances of her academic interests

Please don’t tell your child she bores you. That’s such a crushing thing to be told by a parent.

Talk to her about reading other people and judging your audience etc by all means but please don’t tell your child something they are passionate about bores you. How do you expect her to trust you if you do that.

Agree.

If this was a young man whose conversations always turned to some arcane branch of astronomy I think there would be a lot more suggestions of ND.

The issues with the daughter are the same though - the OP clearly doesn't want to talk shop all the time with her daughter, but the daughter hasn't taken hints or even direct communication on this to heart, and even turns the conversation back to the academic level of inquiry during a conversation that's on a less academic level.

This is one of my DCs, and I find it exhausting, especially as the ultimate aim is to make me agree. I find the probing and questioning quite hard, and the also the inference that I am pretty superficial, but I think perhaps it's just being very young and eager. And woke.

I think that, when you have the energy, you should seek her out to have one of her conversations. The rest of the time you could just say ‘ooh no, too heavy for a Tuesday evening. Did you have a nice time when you went out at the weekend? Where did you end up going?’ And every time she sounds like she’s going to start talking about the psychology of pub culture, go back to ‘well save that for one of our deeper conversations. Right now, I want to know what’s going on in your life’. If you really give it all of your concentration and thought when you do have a deep conversation with her, she’s got no grounds to complain when you need to take it down a notch.

I’ve been a bit like this and annoyed people. My solution has been to try to do an activity if I’m talking to people, rather than just sit around when all you have is ‘the chat’. Small talk on its own bores me so that’s why I think ‘intense’ people try to push things into deeper or more controversial areas. If I can focus on the ‘activity’ I get less bored.

Someone suggested walks. You could also try baking together or gardening alongside each other. I’ve found that bringing myself back to the here and now with a physical or practical activity lightens things and gives an escape option if things get too intense. I know it’s not always practical but might be worth keeping in mind. It seems to work for me and my wordy DC sometimes.

If she has children she will soon be forced to go back to basics (bodily functions, fluids, sleep and food), although women like this can struggle a little extra with motherhood as a result… something to be aware of for the future…