To expect my AuDHD young teen to understand the impact of his behaviour on rest of family?

[Thebabycheeses78]

Trying to get my AuDHD DS to get his things together ready for early flight back home. We are staying with family. It is taking forever to do something that has taken my other kids 15 minutes to do.

It’s not just this evening- it’s the same drill all the time. Constant nagging and standing over him to get him to do basic tasks.

and of course, it always descends into a shouting match. If I sound even slightly irate after asking him to do something 10 times, he starts screaming and shouting about how I’m shouting at him.

I end up frazzled and upset. Every trip, every day out, every weekend is like this. I even have to cajole and drag him around to things he wants to go to.

I’d hoped we’d have all been packed 2 hours ago, but it has taken this long to get him moving and he’s still not finished. It means the evening is ruined for everyone and our last day of holiday has been stressful.

he is high functioning. He does well at school. He is someone who will very likely go to university, get a job and outwardly appear functional. But I worry about him- I can see his wife on mumsnet in 25 years at the end of her tether because he won’t adult.

any suggestions on how to get through to him about the impact he is having on others?

@Thebabycheeses78 it is incredibly difficult and I'm sorry, but right now the onus is on you to read more. I know you have done, but you've got to keep trudging through it to find something that works for your family. For mine it is me doing a lot of things for my children, accepting that they need more support and advocating endlessly for them.

I'm pleasantly surprised by most posters on this thread to be honest. There is a lot of community knowledge here.

Other posters seem absolutely flabbergasted that disabled people continue to be disabled by their disability.

In general that is true - but not when you have a flight to catch!

Hi Op. I’m sorry you are getting such a hard time on here, you are asking for help with you son who was only diagnosed 6months ago - there is next to no ‘support and advice’ offered post diagnosis and trying to find the right approach and guidance from reliable sources is a minefield.

This is what I have been doing with my two sons. My eldest is autistic, 16yo and academic. Like you I am trying to prepare him for independence. For things like trips away, we sit down together a a couple of weeks before and write out a list of everything he thinks he needs, anything I to ink he needs but he hasn’t thought of. This gives us chance to buy things we don’t have at home etc.

Then the day before the packing will start. I have a copy of the list and so does he. Initially I would be alongside him as he found each thing one by one laid them all out and ticked them off the list as they went in the bag. I was just there for moral support and to help him keep on task. If there was a lot to pack we would break it down into smaller sections so he didn’t have to do all of it at once. Most importantly, I do not ask or expect him to do or have to deal with anything else EXCEPT his task (packing) fo the time he is doing it. Once he starts I will make sure he is not interrupted.

It’s taken a few years but we’re now at the point where he can make his own list, and sends it to me to check it. I prompt him to start to pack, but leave him to it, checking in on him every now and then in a supportive way (how’s it going? Do you need any help?). If he’s seeming overwhelmed I will
offer to take the load for him - this might mean him asking me to do part of the task, or helping in some other way. Worst case scenario if he’s really not able to do it that day for whatever reason and is getting distressed, then I will do the packing for him. No big deal. He tried and that’s all I ask. I’d rather he asks me for help when he needs it. Most of the time now he is able to do it himself, sometimes we do a final check. It’s no big deal on the occasions he can’t. It’s not his fault.

Over time his confidence has grown and I have no doubt he will be able to do this completely independently in another year or so.

Hope that helps x

He can learn on the way out when there's loads of time. Right now when everyone is stressed. Nope. You don't make new memories when in autistic meltdown So no point anyway.

Oh I know, which is why my main suggestion of photos for each step is for regular tasks!

So, if a child with a neurodisability consistently isn't doing something, it's probably best to assume they can't. He can't just decide to be different, and it's probably causing him as much distress as it's causing you.

I'd start by seeing if there's a group for parents of nd dc around, they can be very supportive. It really takes the heat out of a situation when you can frame the behaviour that's irritating you in the context of the disability.

I wonder if this is an issue of executive function? I'd try to increase his dopamine by giving a treat or spending pleasant time together before asking him to do a task you know he'll find hard. It's likely he need the opposite of traditional parenting, and you getting angry will make things worse not better.

I have a dc who really struggles with executive function. They are a smart kid, but they need a lot of support to get going on activities, particularly if they are low reward. So I do get how tricky it can be as the parent.

"High functioning" is not really a descriptor services encourage these days. It just means "able to mask so they don't inconvenience nt people".

As a final though, have you ever considered if you might have any neurodiversity? It was a revelation for me to work out that the reason I struggled with particular behaviours is because of my own need for a routine to be followed, and the solution was working on my issues first before my dc's.

Missed off the end of my post:

.My 12yo (AuDHD and learning difficulties) needs much much closer hands on support, so that’s what I have to do. I could just do it for him, he’s likely to not ever be able to do it totally independently, but I still try to help him be more independent so we do it together. It takes ages but he’s involved every step of the way.

The extra time and support they both need is just something I’ve had to accept that I have factor in to preparations for trips away etc. It is part of the reality of life with disabled children - but you are only 6months in and it takes time to accept and process.

Hope that helps x

Genuine question as I think the hot stove analogy has explained this is a great way (coming from someone who only has a very basic knowledge of PDA from friends) to try to understand. But I don’t really get the second part. Can you explain a bit more?
So the protective mechanisms go up even though you know it’s not a hot stove…but you still can’t do it. But why? What is the message your brain is getting?
Like is it like OCD when it’s a feeling something bad will happen? Or not?

Long answer @Thebabycheeses78 but hoping the tips/suggestions are what you are looking for.

I think your expectations -and probably your son’s- are unrealistic. At 15 most AuDHDs have an emotional and organisational age of 3-5 years younger, even if they are academically high functioning. My DD is 20, now at uni but we have to oversee stuff, eg when packing for uni or holidays.

I break it down into smaller tasks, ranked by by priorities:
Have you packed your toilet bag?
Did you remember to put your meds in it?

I will then ask her to go pop it in her case.

Do you have your underwear and night things? Great. Let’s put those in.
Where are your clothes and shoes? Shall we put those in next?
Do you have your tech/charger? Which text books do you need this term?

I often do actually write a post-it (or prompt her to): toiletries, meds, tech, underwear, shoes, clothes [might write: 2 x trousers, 4 x Tshirts, +hoody] after a previous chat where we’ve discussed what she will need.

The post-it note lists goes in the case as it can be reused at the other end.

I also do reminders. ‘Can you make sure you are packed by 7?’ [I know we are leaving at 8, but this leaves time to help if needed]; at 7, if she is not ready, I ask her if she can be ready in 15mins. I will also ask ‘if she would like some help’ at this point.

Tbh, this was my routine at 15/16 - for both my AuDHD kids (DS 17, DD 20), but after several years of prepping a packing list with them and setting a time line, they really have managed for the last few years without any help. The only thing I now routinely check is whether they have their meds.

It sounds exhausting, but it becomes easier - try to get him involved in writing the checklist so he is empowered, rather than you imposing (if he has any ODD/PDA elements to his AuDHD, it will trigger a push back, so it is aways best to frame questions openly - eg rather than ‘pack your shoes’, ask how many pairs of shoes do you think you should pack? Do you want to put your Vans in? Etc). Am sure there are other tips, too. Hopefully other PPs can embellish.

Hello?
Do you know nothing about disability?
Of course it impacts the family!

ADHD coaching, ASAP. My DH’s parents are lovely, lovely people. However, they didn’t understand ADHD and autism (he’s diagnosed with ADHD, and I suspect he has autism as well) when he and I were young, and they were worried about him being labeled. So he grew up exactly as you describe - still freaking out when he needed to pack, still unable to focus and follow through, etc. I am the wife you’re talking about. BUT I’m not even close to the end of my tether with him because I can see he does genuinely care, and feels horrible that he’s “doing” this. I’ve had him crying asking why is it his brain is broken and he’s a failure. I think you’d feel less frustrated if you knew your DS does care, and his frustration indicates that he does care but doesn’t know how to fix this or even express his feelings (my DH shuts down). My DH is not a failure, and your DS won’t be either, but it IS a huge struggle for them. We’re getting my DH some specialized counseling in the new year (we don’t have much money spare, so that was his Christmas gift), and I would recommend the same for your DS. The British Association for Counseling and Psychotherapy (BACP) lets you search by location and speciality, so you can find someone in their directory near you who specializes in AuDHD.

Christ alive. I can't believe what a hard time people are giving mum. She has clearly made efforts to support her son. An Audhd person can still take responsibility for stuff and packing should be achievable. Stop making such excuses. Putting out all their eyuff? Buying extra toiletries? Get a grip. He needs to get on with it, or be left to do it independently over a longer period of time. Give the mum a break.

My son has ASD and I find a less confrontational approach takes the heat out of a lot of situations, not easy when stressed though.

Teeth brushing was causing a massive issue every morning. He hates being told what to do or being reminded etc.

I started saying ‘I’m finished I the bathroom so you can do your teeth now’ and he says ‘ok’ and does it. Might an approach like this help? eg something like ‘my case is finished. I’ll read whilst you do yours then we can go for dinner’ or similar.

Yes, I totally get that you’re trying to set him up and get him ready for life. But if he’s a young teen, what is he 13, 14?
I’m training to be an ADHD coach, and apparently the research shows that kids with ADHD, on average, have an executive function maturity up to 3 years behind neurotypical children. So, If you set your expectations back three years, would you expect your 10-year-old to be able to pack for their holiday?

If you’re away on holiday, he’s already out of his usual routine and comfort zone , so this isn’t the time or place to be putting this kind of extra pressure on him. Just pack it for him.

And if you can afford it, look at hiring a family trained ADHD coach - they will support with stuff like this. (I’m not touting for business- I’m not trained yet, but if you want info on trying to find a suitably qualified one, pm me)

Apologies for possible de-rail - how do you train to be an ADHD coach? Wondering if this is something I could do when youngest goes to uni next year.

It is your job as a parent to act as your child’s occupational therapist. You need to get to the root of the blockage and then help break down the task in a way that he can learn to tackle it.

you have done this for your NT children again and again, you just didn’t have to think about it because the explanations come naturally for you. It’s harder if you don’t share the same thought patterns as your child, but it’s still your job to teach the skill.

I’m late diagnosed Autistic and ADHD (like in my 30s for the former and 40s for ADHD). It’s a lot to process. It changes your perception of self and although I was pleased to know, I had to rewrite many thoughts about myself (some negatives like being lazy, rather than having executive dysfunction, were hard wired).
I’d suggest looking for ADHD coaching. I got mine through Access to work but there are private coaches as well. I’d recommend the book The Explosive Child by Ross Greene for looking at problems and strategies to help your DS. I found it really helpful with DD - not diagnosed but probably ND. I’d also recommend watching/listening the ADHD_love podcast ‘late bloomers’ podcast and their books (Rich and Rox Pink) to understand some of the struggles and motivations at play. it’s important to know that executive dysfunction it’s just about struggling to do the things you need to do. Sometimes it’s for the things you’d love to do. For example, I enjoy sewing but I find it really difficult to sew because it’s such an effort to organise my machine to do it. Once I start, I love it!
I’d agree with ideas of body doubling to do tasks - approaches that work for me and for DD include body doubling for tasks, racing each to do it, making it into a game (eg bear the clock, count the clean - count every item you touch and stop when you’ve tidied x number).
I hope you find some of this helpful.

I am in my 50s and was diagnosed with ADHD about ten years ago.

The only way I can be packed in time for something is to start hours or days ahead of when a normal person would. I've never managed to change my brain or learn to do it all faster, I just compensate for that by starting earlier. (Ironically, even this can annoy other people who think it should be simple enough to do in one evening.)

I do a difficult and complex job at work, but when I pack I'm just incredibly slow at the back and forth of bringing things together from different places and organising them into different places in different bags, working out what should go where and so on.

OP, your brain will be doing things you're just not aware of that your son's brain can't in the same way, probably partly because his working memory is likely to be very bad. No amount of willpower and just trying can magically fix that type of executive functioning difficulty, you just need tricks to compensate for it, like allowing much more time.

I write myself really really detailed lists that I reuse and I use a lot of smaller containers like stuff sacks, carrier bags, those tuff zip bags and food bags of different sizes. That works well for me. I put even really obvious things on the lists, not because I can't remember them at all, but because it saves so much thinking time in the moment, and also it makes the task feel easier so I don't put off starting.

I also have a young adult child with ADHD and I think remembering that they're about 30% behind their peers in executive functioning is very important. Also, as they mature, even if their executive functioning never becomes normal, their motivation to succeed does increase and that can make everything feel so much better, so don't be too discouraged about the future.

my youngest is AuADHD, diagnosed at 16, now 18. Very clever and high functioning, and veyr autistic!
I have had to rethink so much of how I parent her compared to her older siblings, and the better I get at it, the easier life is.
One thing is that I have to plan in enough 1:1 time with her, so we went away for Christmas, and I knew I would need to spend a few hours with her packing and sorting, and leaving her bedroom in a state that was comfortable for her. Then she would also need a few hours of 'limpet' time, ie time with me to help her becuase of the underlying stress of the upcomeing holidays, we often do this by curling up on the sofa and watching something.

I always write her a packing list.
I sit on her bed and we go through the list and she puts everything on the bed.
Then we pack the bag (note 'we' not 'she' and she is 18)
then we get out the things that need to be added at the last minute.
We write a list of last minute stuff and she double checks everything.
Then she is exhausted.

Emotional stress is huge and is caused by any change, so going to stay with well-known relatives is massive, change of house, routine, bed, food.
I take safe foods and we plan in escape times.
I reduce all expectations. She was struggling on Christmas morning, so I made her a 'nest' on my bed with her tech and said she could stay there all day, and I'll bring Christmas lunch up. Because I took all the pressure off, she actually made it back down for lunch and the rest of the day.
She gets massively overwhlemed by being with everyone, and at the same time loves her cousins and wants to hang out. We create slots in the day when she can escape.

One point to remember, autistic kids are usually running emotionally at about 2/3 of their chronologival age. So a 15 year old is running at about 10 years old in terms of emotions and ability to deal with things. This is not always obvious. At first glance my dd appears to be very mature for her age, and in some ways is very mature. But when she is upset, she is reacting like a younger teen, not like an 18 year old.
It is worth having that at the backof your mind. If your teen is 13, they are at an emotional working age of about 9 years old. What would you expect a 9 year old to cope with?

I understand the frustration OP - I have an AuDHD pre-teen and despite being ND myself and totally “getting it” it can be really exasperating.

Thar said, I think trying to get him to focus on the impact this is having on others is likely to be absolutely counterproductive.

I know from my own experience that when I feel I am letting other people down it becomes even harder to do the thing I am struggling with. I get caught in vicious cycle where I feel bad because I can’t do something, which makes me feel even more stuck, which makes me feel worse and on and on it goes.

I still don’t have all the practical strategies figured out (I struggle with scaffolding for myself, trying to scaffold for someone else as well is exhausting).

But showing love and acceptance is I think super important, including and especially acceptance of the quirks and challenges. I think for high functioning academic ND children, they can end up feeling a big disconnect between being praised for academic achievements but ashamed of the ‘simple’ things they struggle with. I think the great thing that parents can do is demonstrate unconditional love and support.

Just wanted to add, my dd is VERY aware of the impact she has on others and it upsets her, and makes her less able to complete tasks.

You worry about the future, well my dd is 18, and doing A levels. She has recognised that she may not eb reayd to head of to uni in Sept. She is goig to take a gap year, and focus on some of the life skills that she still struggles with, and then hea doff t uni the year after. I fully expect to travel up to see her once a month, help her reset her room, help her with a couple of loads of washing, cook some stuff together and make sure she has food in. I would not dream of doing that for my older kids, they heading off to uni by themselves.
But it will probably be the difference between success and failure, and I'll only do it as long as she needs it.
She has also investigated what support is available and will access loads of it, and she will need it.

Changing expectations, I think she will hit some of these goals 2-3 years later than her siblings, but she will hit them. But I also suspect that she will need to work part-time, maybe 4 days a week.

He is probably well aware of how his behaviour is affecting the family but he can’t help it…!! Have you not read up anything about what it’s like to have ADHD?? Every step of the task in hand needs to be specifically asked one at a time, he needs support to stay on task. Calm and de-escalate if he becomes overwhelmed

Amazing post.