To expect my AuDHD young teen to understand the impact of his behaviour on rest of family?

[Thebabycheeses78]

Trying to get my AuDHD DS to get his things together ready for early flight back home. We are staying with family. It is taking forever to do something that has taken my other kids 15 minutes to do.

It’s not just this evening- it’s the same drill all the time. Constant nagging and standing over him to get him to do basic tasks.

and of course, it always descends into a shouting match. If I sound even slightly irate after asking him to do something 10 times, he starts screaming and shouting about how I’m shouting at him.

I end up frazzled and upset. Every trip, every day out, every weekend is like this. I even have to cajole and drag him around to things he wants to go to.

I’d hoped we’d have all been packed 2 hours ago, but it has taken this long to get him moving and he’s still not finished. It means the evening is ruined for everyone and our last day of holiday has been stressful.

he is high functioning. He does well at school. He is someone who will very likely go to university, get a job and outwardly appear functional. But I worry about him- I can see his wife on mumsnet in 25 years at the end of her tether because he won’t adult.

any suggestions on how to get through to him about the impact he is having on others?

Help him pack his things, encourage him kindly, he is different from your other DC, he might be capable of managing a lot, packing under pressure isn’t one of them.

Here’s my take in it, as someone with adhd and a parent to an adhder. Just leave them to it, he needs the adrenaline and panic to set in to get him moving, he knows what needs to be done , but he won’t/can’t do it until the panic sets in.

So just walk away. Remind him again what time you are leaving, and be prepare for him to bring creased dirty clothes.
I understand the frustration, I really do, but you have to let him fail so he can learn. He needs to get to his hyper focus and lock in. People talk about doing things in small chunks but for people with adhd I think that only thing that works is pressure and immediate consequences.

There are a myriad of ‘professionals’ but I think Dr Barkley is the one.
People talk about adhd being a disability, but I don’t think it’s recognised as a disability for the purpose of benefits.

Also, hormones are massive disruptors for adhd people, so at 15 he’s probably in the thick of it.

I also find it hard to separate normal teen behaviour and what is adhd behaviour.

Also try to communicate with him what you want, i snap chat mine, as there’s no tone to get offended by, no emotion, no feeling of annoyance or judgment, just instructions.

It’s good but it’s not reciprocal is it?

Has he had an educational psychologist assessment? If not, he could have poor working memory, which can be co-morbid with the hidden disabilities like autism, ADHD, dyslexia, etc. It makes following multi-stage tasks especially difficult, because they can’t hold all those stages in working memory. As pp have said, break tasks down into one stage at a time. DD2 diagnosed with ADHD, but clearly has autistic traits too, still needs tasks broken down for her, as an adult, otherwise she is likely to be distracted by something else for 5 hours! Task paralysis!

Check out PDA pathological demand avoidance

Are you being deliberately ableist?

This! There is a huge amount of information available, online research, online support groups and many excellent books. Educate yourself.

I genuinely don't understand what you mean by it not being reciprocal.

No.

You wouldn't expect a wheelchair user to suddenly sprint (on their legs) to catch the plane.

You wouldn't expect a blind person to read the fine print on the ticket.

You wouldn't expect someone profoundly deaf to hear the announcements.

Why on earth are you expecting a child with executive function problems, sensory issues and a communication disability to function like they are suddenly not disabled for your convenience?

High functioning means they have average intelligence or above. Doesn't mean they are not disabled and not impacted by their disability.

What are you doing then @PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul ? You do understand that disabled people and non disabled people are different don't you? Someone has already given you a good analogy, would you expect someone who is blind to guide others? That's what you're asking. If it's not, please could you just ask whatever is on your mind. You're driving my ADHD autistic brain crazy 😂

Are you autistic yourself and this is part of why you find it all so frustrating. That’s not going to change, he may seem functional but he’s getting deeply affected by the constant sense of failure and your expression he is never doing well enough. I suggest you find out a lot more about his neurotype and really come to terms with the strategies and supports he really needs to be happy not just be able to mask and suffer from lifelong problems with no strategies.

You’ll get your head kicked in on here OP, but I just wanted to say I get it- there is one person in our household with a v similar profile and the rest of us seemingly just have to shut up and put up with it or else there are awful rows. It’s HARD.

You say you get frazzled. You are the weather for him. If you don’t regular yourself emotionally, he literally can’t.

what support does he have to learn these tasks? How can he access it? Lists, visuals, audio notes? How do you encourage him?

Comparing him to other kids isn’t helpful for you or him. Try thinking of it as though he can’t hear properly noisier the steps you’d take in that scenario.

I know it’s hard and can wear a saint down at the best of times but I guarantee he isn’t choosing this.

This, as you’ve seen, shut up put up, you’re wrong unless you say you’re awful and in the wrong

OP it's really important that you read up on executive functioning.

Autism and ADHD both impact executive functioning, and autism adds strict adherence to rituals, routines and schedules as well as black and white thinking to the mix.

Executive dysfunction doesn't just impact starting tasks, but switching between tasks, and even finishing tasks too.

There's a hot stove metaphor. You have a hot stove in front of you, and you're told to put your hand on the hot plate. You can physically do it, you have a hand, you have mobility, but you know that it will hurt if you do, so your brain protects you by telling you not to do it. That's healthy executive functioning. Executive dysfunction means your brain can see tasks as hot stoves, and it gets confused. You can see the suitcase isn't a hot stove but those protective mechanisms go up anyway. You just. Can't. Do it.

It can also take autistic and ADHD folk years to build habits that NT people can form in 15 days or less. That is with consistent daily routine building. Things like brushing teeth and washing faces first thing on a morning and last thing on a night, for example, might need extended periods of prompting and guiding from parents to ND children, because missing it can set back progress you've worked years on, when many NT children pick this up without needing prompting. Things like packing suitcases aren't a thing that is done every day, so each and every time, additional support will probably be required to stop attention being misplaced and to support with executive functioning.

There are additional challenges like dopamine searching, when the tasks available are boring, and sensory seeking and avoiding. Some tasks are neurologically painful to carry out, and when you're diagnosed later on in life, it's possible you've made this discomfort known and been told to just get on with it, even told it isn't painful or uncomfortable, to stop whining, and so you do the tasks but it takes a lot longer to do, or isn't done to the best standard.

It sounds like your child needs help understanding what is going on with his brain but for him to understand that, you need to understand it too.

That’s not accurate at all. You’re enjoying twisting things to suit your ableist narrative.
You have repeatedly ignored posters who have pointed out to you that your attitude is that of a person expecting a wheelchair user to climb the stairs or a blind person see.
You fail to acknowledge that this young man has a disability and his behaviour is not one of choice but a different in executive function. He is not able to do the task set.

Tell me you don’t understand anything about neurodivergence without actually telling me. Your child isn’t doing it intentionally. Look in to overwhelm and paralysis for a start. I feel so sorry for your son and I really hope you aren’t telling him he has “ruined” your evening. Give your head a wobble!

No I haven’t. What have said is if he has belief that people cannot make demands of him, surely he also doesn’t expect others to meet any of his demands?

if windows and Linux continue to try to find a way to communicate with one another I would consider that to be reciprocal especially if they go one to create a different system to allow them to do so. Expecting Linux to operate in windows is as crazy as asking windows to suddenly be able to cope with Linux.

I am also going to add from experience when you add the Au with DHD you have a child who needs far longer to acquire social and life skills when compared to someone of a similar intellect who does not have AuDHD. Others have made a good point that if you use too many information carrying points at once the whole lot will get dumped as the ADHD side of AuDHD will struggle to recall anything that it’s is not interested in so the hyperfocus side cannot kick in.

He can't do it now. He can practice later. Don't stress. He doesn't need to.learn it now. He can learn to do.it in stages going on holiday. Look up backward chaining.

What needs to happen now is everything needs to be in his case. If that means you do it then fine. He's not an adult yet. Some things he might never learn. You work with what you've got now and think.of the next step not the whole lot.

You don't teach a five year old the whole degree curriculum, they learn step by step...

He doesn't need to know all the adulting right now.

Sod what anyone else can do. He can't yet. He'll learn in his own time or get support if he can't.

This sounds like you being his executive functioning for him.
I'm not sure if this will work but one step at a time can help.
For regular tasks photos of each step can also help.
Edit: it's no good saying "he can't do it yet so do it for him for now". He won't learn that way, but if he does it bit by bit as he can, he will learn. You can't learn anything without practicing.

Ffs it is not a belief that people can’t make demands of him! ITS AN INABILITY TO CARRY OUT THAT DEMAND!

It is not for lack of wanting to do it.

By your logic a blind man would also be expecting a non blind person to also not be able to see.

See how ridiculous you sound?

Thank you for this and for acknowledging that parenting children with this profile can be really frustrating.

I have a 5 yr old most likely with AuDHD so am at a very different stage to OP but can imagine being where she is in a few years. I have tried a lot of the strategies recommended for PDA. But I think some of the frustration is that strategies around reframing demands don’t work reliably or consistently or often at all though I may just not have found what works for my son yet.

But I remember trying to offer him choices as a 2 year old and him screaming back “I don’t like either of those options mummy”. And I basically get the same response to choices now.

I had a visual chart for a while which he found motivating for about 2 days. I’ve tried various ways of rephrasing demands which he saw through immediately.

I think he’s just good at picking up on disguised demands. And like lots of children with this profile he was highly verbal at a young age and is very clever in some ways which he uses to his advantage to avoid demands.

I appreciate that there’s a lot more to low demand parenting than that and I’m still learning. I am already finding the balance between reducing demands and making sure he does things which are important difficult. As OP says she wants her son to become independent and it can be really hard to judge in practice when to push that.

He doesn't believe it, his brain reacts differently than normal to requests. It's not a "belief" anymore than saying that someone who is blind "believes" they cannot see.
But I'm sure you realise this and for some reason are being obtuse for fun. Which is irritating.