School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

@Mumguilt25what about the 20 mins of your employer’s time you are taking up daily? Have you accounted for that when requesting your TOIL? In any case TOIL needs to be agreed in advance in most roles.

I have exactly the same scenario with someone in my team although we’re salaried so no official TOIL at all. Although it’s not clear if you’re due it anyway

i also am happy for my team member to take 50 mins in the afternoon to pick up her child and I also said “make sure you still get something to eat at lunchtime” as I wouldn’t have wanted her to wait to eat at 3pm

now she takes half an hour lunch and the break to pick up the child

Whag should be obvious = knowing someone is going to be unavailable every day at a time when most people are able to have meetings etc is incredibly inconvenient. You’re being given this as a goodwill gesture. Don’t take the piss and act like a child

wow OP, YABVVVU.

I’d also say you should be very wary here or this may not work out in your favour at all.

You’re basically getting an extra 30 minutes break every day paid. Thats 2.5 hours a week. Remember this is on goodwill not contractual, and can be removed at any time. I’d say you need to be a lot more grateful for this flexible arrangement. Good job you don’t work for me or I’d have pointed out as much when you tried to put in this ludicrous TOIL claim!

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

They mean Cheeky f*ucker. Thats what CF stands for.

Yeah you stayed late twice, but every other day you leave early. If the school run is 50-60mins, each day you work at least 20 - 30 mins less than youre contracted to.

And your boss is saying (more than reasonably) if you only take 30mins to eat your dinner, instead of 60 that everyone else has. We will let you do the school run. Which, as its a break in your day suggests you also work whilst supervising your 8 year old.

You cant complain about not getting the 4hrs when you worked late twice, whilst taking advantage of not giving back the 20-30mins daily you work less than youre contracted. That is cheeky.

The 4hrs owed to you for this one off is less time that the 2.5hrs every week youve owed them they havent asked you to work back.

This is a wind up, no one is this dense!
So supposedly she’s going to do the school run every day which takes 50-60 minutes, then also having an additional 30 minutes for her lunch. Then feels hard done by that she’s worked 4 hours “extra”. Nice try 🙄

@JDM625 agree given the most recent response.

So the school run is nearly an hour. But she lets you still have a 30 min lunch on top of that? So yes, you are being cheeky asking for 4 hours back.

Ok just doing the maths here. I’m assuming the standard position in your contract is an hour for lunch break. Your school run is 50 mins which she lets you count as your lunch. But she still lets you take 30 mins lunch. So everyday you’re getting 20 minutes unpaid leave. So each week that’s 1h40 unpaid leave. But if EVERY week you are doing 4 hours overtime then that’s obviously shit for you. But if last week was a one-off then it might be that you are better off in the long run overall with the flexibility. And if it’s going to be like this often… then think twice about staying late if there’s nothing to be gained from it

which i understand but because your boss is fairly flexable with what they let you do then by there reasoning even if not agreed before hand you should do the overtime for free as the project needed it plus it seems your on a good agreetment so is it worth rocking the boat etc

So every day you are taking 20-30 minutes out of your day to do the school run, not counting the 30 minutes that are taken from your lunch. Do you make this time up by starting early or working late? If not I can see why your manager didn’t agree the TOIL as every week you are essentially being paid
for at least 2 hours you weren’t actually working.

This cannot be real. Who the hell would be this entitled and daft??? “Oh yes, I take an extra paid 30 minutes every day, but why did my boss not approve four hours of TOIL that she didn’t pre-approve?! You know, the same boss who gives me an extra 30 minutes of pay every day.” Yeah, pull the other one; it’s got bells on it.

THIS is what you've come back to say, after 8 pages of people explaining to you how unreasonable you've been ???

No conceding you might actually have got it very wrong here ?

So all other staff are entitled to a one hour lunch break?

And instead of this, you are permitted to do the school run, plus have a 30 minute lunch break? You say the school run is 50-60 mins per day, so in effect, you’re taking 1.5 hours a day, whereas your colleagues get 1 hour a day?

In which case, I agree that you are being a CF (cheeky fucker) to try and claim back 4 hours of overtime when your boss has permitted you far in excess of that since August.

Your boss is right. Give and take works both ways. If ever you have to work a little extra, see that as working back the time they have already given you in good faith.

You sound very entitled with your comment “I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun”. You haven’t done unpaid overtime. You’ve worked back some of the extra hours you owe.

I’d treat very carefully with how you handle this. If you kick up a fuss over it, or make out that you think you’re hard done by by doing unpaid overtime, your boss has every right to revoke the extra 30 minutes she allows you every day.

She's been really accommodating of you. Cared about your situation and found solutions. You putting in that request showed her that it doesn't work both ways. Makes you look bad. Sorry and that won't have done you any favours. You may have alienated her for a few quid. Mistake.

You should be staying 20-30 mins late every, single night to make up the time from the school run. You not working your full hours will be costing the company a substantial amount over the year. Cannot believe the cheek of you putting in a TOIL request when you have not been working your full hours. Just incredible.

So when you put the request in, did you account for the extra 20-30 minutes you are taking off every day for the school run?

If you are entitled to a hr lunch break but you take 30 mins lunch and 50 mins school run, you take around 20 mins extra per day. I think your boss is being very reasonable.

OP. You are taking the piss. You are getting extra time every day then asking to be rewarded when asked to complete your job

Out of interest, is you 50 to 60 minutes school run just morning drop off? If it's also afternoon pick up, especially on your work from home days, who is looking after your children for your remaining working hours? Or are you then being paid by your employer to look after your children?

“In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄”

and rightly so, otherwise it’s paid time off every single day.

Your boss is completely right that it’s give and take- it’s likely you’re taking far more than you’re giving by doing the school run in working hours everyday vs 4 hours overtime!

Do you actually work the hours (actually working, not doing the laundry, school run etc) that you are being paid for?

So you’re taking a 30 minute lunch break plus 50-60 minutes each day to do the school
run so you’re essentially getting paid for 20-30 minutes where you’re not actually working so over a week you’re getting 2-2.5 hours of pay that your not actually doing any work for?? Yeah YABU to put a TOIL request in, the reason you had to do it in extra time is because you weren’t at work for 2.5 hours of the week that you should’ve been there.

You’ve possibly just shot your self in the foot now too by requesting the TOIL, if I was your boss one be ensuring that you are working your contracted hours moving forward….even if that means being in the office 5 days per week.

Even if you didn’t take time to do the school run, I still think you’re being a CF to request TOIL for the sake of four hours!

Every job I’ve ever had - even at the most junior level - has stated that I work a certain number of hours but that I also agree to work additional hours if necessary for business reasons. Your job is a step up from what you had before so presumably not even junior.

I would say I work at least an additional three or four hours a week anyway just to get through everything. I don’t argue against it because I could probably be more efficient during the day and I don’t want people setting a stopwatch each time I get a glass of water.

I could understand requesting a slightly early finish on a Friday if you’re quiet, and had regularly been working until the late (or early) hours for a whole week. But not a few hours.

You sound very young and inexperienced. If I was your boss, I would be regretting having this informal arrangement with you and would be looking to ask you to formalise your hours
with a view to never flexing again. You have misjudged this. That’s ok we can all misjudge things, but with a role that is so flexible, I’d be looking to keep it as is. Say no more about this, learn and move on.

@Mumguilt25 I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

Right now, you're fitting perfectly into the entitled zoomer stereotype.

I've worked countless additional hours and not asked for anything in return. I suppose I'm from a different culture and upbringing. Rather than being stroppy, I've always just rolled up my sleeves and got on with it.

So every day you are given 20 minutes extra off anyway.
Four hours every fortnight.
If you work an exrtra four hours per fortnight, you are even
.
Try not to work more than that much (4 hours) in overtime; be more efficient with your time and prioritise what the boss wants you to prioritise. Sometimes you will need to work more overtime, particularly while you are trying to learn new skills and get ahead.