School run and TOIL

[Mumguilt25]

I am 25, mum of 1 (DC is 8). Started a new job in August which is a step up — more money, more freedom and flexibility.

In my previous role I literally had to take my lunch break to cover the school run 🙄. New manager was really relaxed and said just do the school run and also take 30 mins lunch whenever (its an hour otherwise) which felt nice and relaxed.

She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill.

Everything was going fine until I put in a TOIL request for 4 hours for extra work I did last week. She refused it, saying she appreciated the effort but that it’s “give and take”.

I’m feeling really annoyed by this. I didn’t choose to work extra hours for fun, it was work that needed doing. I also don’t see how flexibility around school runs = unpaid overtime?

AIBU to feel annoyed? We didnt discuss it beforehand.

Yeah, that is zero flexibility on your part isn't it. Maybe all of the time you've missed so far is offset by the extra couple of hours you worked. Are your hours tracked / do you track your own hours to make sure you are doing what is required?

Also you said She’s also agreed I can WFH 3 days a week and be in the office 2, so on WFH days it’s pretty chill. What do you mean by this? Do you back off your effort when you work from home?

People who take, take, take ruin office flexibility for everyone else.

So you are having 20 mins on your employer’s time each day?

You are taking the piss @Mumguilt25 this is why some employers are pushing back against WFH. I wouldn’t annoy this boss given it’s all ‘pretty chill’

Theres no way you log on while your 8 year old is home, work at the same standard as if they werent. Stop, get your coat and shoes, organise them, get them to school and back in 30mins. And thats assuming you just do mornings.

I can touch the back gate of my nursery from the corner of my garden and it would take at least 15 to get coats, shoes, bags, walk there, say bye and get back. So on the regular you are taking more than your 60min break and everyones agreeing to look the other way.

And you're working at home for 3 very chill days. Id absolutely think if you did 4hrs additional it was a bit of give and take. Unless youd prefer stricter timekeeping procedures which I promise wouldnt work in your favour I think you should be grateful. Theyve been good to you. Im not convinced those 4hrs aren't accounted for in the lax monitoring of the chill days.

You either get the job done in a standard day, push back on a deadline or negotiate TOIL in advance.

Id let this lie for all the benefits youre getting if it were me.

So look at it as everyday youre getting a 90 min lunch to everyone else's 60min. So consider the 30mins "TOIL" to eat at your desk, meaning every week the business is paying you 2.5hrs you dont work because youre on the school run or lunching.

That means over the course of your employment, if they ran a full flexible working report youd owe them more time than they owed you. And you in fact did no overtime. Therefore of course you arent entitled to TOIL and if you push it id expect there will be less school run flexibility

Goodness me, ever heard of give and take?

I read that as one hour lunch break including school run! If it’s then 30 mins after this absolutely CF I’m afraid@Mumguilt25 and your card will be marked!

Wherever I’ve worked (corporate office jobs) any TOIL or over time needs to be agreed in advance, so just on the info from your OP, you would seem unreasonable. The subsequent detail you’ve given in a follow up post confirming you not only take a 30 minute lunch break, but also take an additional 50-60 minutes to do the school run, means you technically owe your employer a fair chunk of time each day (20-30 minutes), which over the course of a 5 day working week equates to between 1.67 and 2.5 hours.

I’ve been a people manager in various roles for about 25 years and have always prided myself on not being a stickler for rules, instead applying common sense, flexibility and pragmatism based on individuals and circumstances. Your manager seems to work in a similar vein and in your position I’d be inclined to be grateful for the flexibility she’s allowed you so far and write off this TOIL, chalking it down to experience. If you want a manager who doesn’t apply the letter of the law of workplace policies to your circumstances, then you need to accept it’s a reciprocal deal where the occasional bit of extra time spent working will have to go unpaid.

Unless you expect to be needing to do that amount of overtime or more on a regular basis, you’re much better off with your informal arrangement staying as is. If you do, then you may need to consider speaking with your manager to renegotiate the terms you’ve informally agreed regarding school runs and lunch breaks so that you then would be entitled to claim TOIL/over time.

Would you rather work your hours as per your contract? That way you could have TOIL.

I'd be thinking pretty fast about how to backtrack, apologise and throw in some extra hours for good measure op.

You've overstepped when you were onto a good thing.

😑 your boss is being so flexible and generous and then you are going through the dinner bill and working out how many fries she ate of yours to charge her a percentage

I think the boss has already been giving a mile...

If it’s a step up and a professional role then occasionally overtime without clock watching maybe expect. Not excessive but the odd 30 mins etc

People like OP give WFH a bad name with taking time off for school run and WFH days being "pretty chill"

So you're being paid to do the school run, still get a 30 min lunch and you expect to get TOIL for 4 hours overtime? Yeah, YABVU.

Sounds like you’re being ungrateful.

I wfh some days and being able to do school runs is MASSIVELY beneficial to me and the kids.

My previous role was 5 days a week in office and no school runs (before/ after school clubs used). I am so appreciative of being able to do school runs.

I have many friends who can never do school runs because of work.

YABU

I’d be happy with the “give and take” approach if I were you, it seems to be very much working out in your favour if I’ve understood correctly? (You get an hour lunch, however your manager allows you to use the hour on the school run, plus let you have an additional half hour lunch break?)
If you kick up too much of a fuss and your manager decides to work to rule, you might find you have to take your lunch break within set hours in the middle of the day that don’t fit with pickup, plus lose your extra half hours break too.

Whats a CF?
Im only asking for additional 4 hours as I stayed late twice

But op that's a big ask in the circumstances of the flexibility you are benefitting from. The smaller your "overtime", in fact, the worse it really is that you are even asking.

A CF is a cheeky Fucker.

Although I think you know that☺️. And I think you are pulling our legs

Does your work have a TOIL policy? What does it say? Mine doesn't have one. If you are fairly senior you are expected to just do extra hours if needed. Sometimes might get time off in lieu informally agreed with your manager but it's not really a thing.
Also what do you mean by chill days WFH? My work is relaxed about people working from home but it's no easier.
It really depends on the set up of your work.

Were you asked to stay late or did you decide to?

So you are taking 50 minutes to an hour every day to do the school run and an additional half an hour for lunch? Lunch is usually one hour. Can you not see that you're having up to 1.5 hours off every day? So 2.5 extra hours off each and every week? Way more than the odd 4 hours extra occasionally.
Your boss is totally right. You want flexibility, yet not when it means you're doing extra. You can't have it both ways.
Also TOIL is usually something that has to be agreed in advance. You don't just send in a request. If I was your boss I'd be seriously annoyed with you!

Are you paid for that extra 30 minutes break you get every day?