To have not lied to DS about trans actor in Last Christmas?

[DungOnATwig]

Watching above with DD17 (lesbian) and DS11 (straight) earlier today. One scene where a female presenting (long hair + fake eyelashes) but clearly biologically male actor plays a doctor (just Dr). DS says "that......lady sounds like a man".

I said yeah it is a man love. A man who identifies as a sex they are not.

DD paused then typed a wee bit more furiously than usual for 30 secs but then was ok. She knows tbf. She's lesbian and not pan.

It was so distilled down to me at the point of his very innocent (and tentative so as not to offend question) that I am not prepared to lie to my kid about the fucking fundamentals of life and tell them that person is a woman. Fuck that.

Merry Christmas 🍷

Also FUCK THAT FILM 😭😭😭😭😭

Why would we need to treat a man as a woman? What can a man do when he claims he’s a woman that he can’t do if he claims he’s a man? What does treat in a man as a woman look like? Accessing female spaces? Why? He’s not a woman?

lol, no, im sure you are aware that most people will agree with the fact that men shouldn’t be treated as women just because they say so. Which is what you are implying.

Also @Kimura how about you address your complaints to the people who brought up “sex changing animals”, rather than the people pointing out what bollocks it is as a justification of why some men should be treated as women?

Doesn't that take us back to how do we tell the difference?

How do we tell the difference between a biological man with a gender identity and a biological man without a gender identity?

I’m afraid this is exactly what a number of TIMs claim, supposedly intelligent and rational ones. Eg barrister Robin Moira-White who claims he is a woman (an actual biological woman) because he is “endocrinally” female.
Or former Master (judge) Victoria McCloud, who as a 57 year old man told Laura Kuenssberg in an interview that he is taking the contraceptive pill and that it stops him becoming pregnant.

You literally could not make this shit up.

Do you think these men are mentally ill and actually believe their own delusions, or that they are trying to force people to validate them, to acquiesce in their own gaslighting?

Despite my less than neutral language it’s a genuine question - what do you think?

There is a German woman,Valerie Wilms, with two children who when asked what her genes would show replied that she would be XY.

I think some of them are deluded and really believe it, and all of them are gaslighting when we refuse to bow to their delusions.

Why is it only the male to female that we hear making these outrageous claims? Why don't trans lobbyists understand that they are damaging their cause, not helping it?

and ironically she'd be far more capable of doing you harm than any trans person you're likely to come across)
Capable perhaps, but far less likely to, as she's female and won't have the male pattern of violence.

The answer to which (assuming you actually meant trans woman not trans person, because plenty of trans people are already women) is No.

Because to do so is to allow the idea that how a man looks or thinks or behaves makes him objectively more like a woman than a man.

And to believe that, society has to endorse the idea that there are ways of looking or thinking or behaving that correctly and specifically belong to "men" or to "women" in the first place.

And that's the sort of social sexism I thought we were all very hapoy to be getting away from.

It certainly does not benefit women - actual women - to redefine us from simply being the female half of humanity with whatever looks and thoughts and personality we happen to have into some concept of an "other" type of mind that only exists because it is projected onto us by men.

To suggest that person didn't pass in that situation would be ridiculous

i know you aren’t talking about anyone in particular with this but i am saying that i believe there are some people out there who would be able to tell even if the vast majority of us couldn’t

(and as others have said in certain situations, obviously someones chances of ‘passing’ are higher in a photo)

but again as others have said its got nothing to do with whether males should be in female spaces

It was stated as a biological fact that things don’t change sex. I was just pointing out that this isn’t correct, as the poster had instructed their child that way!

The OP said that the man was identifying as a sex they were not….thats it

and its true 🤷🏻

I’ve known plenty of bio women who don’t have hips, are column shaped and just go straight up and down. That one really isn’t a reliable indicator that someone is male.

Humans can't change sex, that is a biological fact.

Different animals can do lots of things humans can't do. Fly, breath underwater, run 70 mph. None of those would be relevant to a discussion about what humans can do either.

"Things" or humans (or possibly mammals)?

One species of bird, the cardinal, can change sex. Fascinating actually.

Bilateral gynandromorphism also occasionally shows up in northern cardinals. Since male and female cardinals have different coloration, it’s easy to spot a gynandromorph—which has brown-gray "female" feathers on one half and bright red "male" feathers on the other. According to a study, gynandromorph cardinals not only look different, but they also act differently, at least the one researchers observed from 2008 to 2010.7 During that time, the “half-sider” was never seen vocalizing or mating. On the plus side, other cardinals seemed to accept it, and the researchers never witnessed it being mistreated.

I’m not quoting this to support the idea of mammals being able to change sex. It’s just really interesting.

That’s a DSD, a genetic defect where the animal’s development is anomalous, not a sex change. Calling it a sex change is like claiming that polydactyly means humans aren’t born with 10 fingers and 10 toes.

Though I agree that it is interesting.

All women have hips.

All cases that were started, and in some cases concluded, before the SC judgment.

Of course adverse consequences may follow if someone chooses not to follow the law, but that doesn't mean that the relevant beliefs are unprotected.

That wasn't the question that I was asked. The response in question was a conclusion, not a question. And no, as is all too common on MN, someone chose to jump several steps forward from what I actually said to an illogical conclusion.

The answer to your question isn't straightforward. I share non-cubicle toilet facilities at home with men perfectly happily. I've also worked in small offices where the toilets available are single toilets were for use by both men and women, and again that didn't bother me or the other women in the offices concerned. If you're talking about larger public toilets, on the whole no, I don't want to share them with men who don't claim to be men, not least because men's toilets tend to be smellier and messier. But I'm aware of women who have happily marched into and used men's toilets when the queues for the women's are too long.

Plenty of women have long necks, plenty of men have receding or non-prominent chins. It would be a very foolish person who claimed to be able to distinguish men from women infallibly based on this alone.

You're just not walking "womanly" enough! Come on, now.
😂
<disclaimer>
sarcasm

Yes, how dare the vulnerable sex that are raped, abused, experience domestic violence etc fear the predator and oppressor sex. How very dare we! Don't we know that our natural instinct is 'wrong'?

But the reality is that most women do not fear most men. Sure, we fear violent men, but then we also fear violent women. That doesn't mean we have to have a "natural instinct" that all trans women are predatory and oppressive. Many of us make our own judgments on each individual case we encounter.

All "trans women" are men though that's the point. And seen as we have no way of telling the good men from the bad we exclude all men from spaces where women and girls may want privacy. If a man attempts to enter spaces designated for women and girls it's safe to say he at best does not respect the need for women and girls to have a space free from men and at worst is a predator.

I share non-cubicle toilet facilities at home with men perfectly happily.

I presume you know these men and don't allow complete strangers to wander in from the street to use your toilet.

I think it was Helen Joyce that said she has a unisex bed at home but that doesn't mean she wants random men sharing it.