To feel like I don’t like men anymore

[Dogsinsantasuits]

Not as in not attracted to them, although I am less bothered these days
It’s almost like i’m coming to a realisation that most (not all) are not great and women are infinitely stronger people.
Is this an age thing-late 40’s? Sad as I used to really like men. Now all I see around me is amazing women with men who aren’t a patch on them or dangerous and/or perverted men in the news.

Well, if they do a dangerous and difficult job, one that most women will not or cannot do, in order to provide for their family, then they can't exactly be "useless fathers and husbands", can they? What, they're not "emotionally available", or some other bullshit?!

Too many women are looking for the Hollywood Rom Com version of a perfect man and are bitter when they can't find him.

There is not one post here with a woman hating men because she cannot get one. Not one

Why are you talking about occupational segregation? What is the relevance?

I think you’re missing the point of the thread @TrishM80

Single women aren’t bitter at all. On the contrary. That’s the point.

We’re not talking about changing tyres, oil rigs or plumbers just that we’d rather not be in relationships with them.

I have no idea why so many people try to pretend single women are bitter. Men aren’t exactly hard to get for women. If we wanted one, we’d have one. And we don’t.

Or any thinking we’re entitled to a tall strong rich man to whisk us away - nothing of the sort

No, actually most women are saying they can’t be bothered with men anymore.

You keep bringing it back to jobs, saying that men build shit - so what, doesn’t make them good partners.

I’m guessing TrishM80 is a bloke. There seem to be loads of them hanging out on Mumsnet, pretty pathetic.

I am loving when women have so little intelligence they can't grasp the concept that someone with a different opinion can be nothing else than a MAN.

God forbid some women have one original or different thought 😂

Totally agree. It’s the anger that gives it away. The absolute fury that so many women agree on this.

Actually, I checked loads of his other posts - and he’s either a man, or a woman who seems to despise women.

Here it is, the incel mindset in full glory. Being expected to be emotionally available is bullshit and women expect a Hollywood man. It’s really unfair isn’t it you have to bring more to the table than an income.😆

If men provided those things you said, they'd still be in demand. But they don't. How many men, who aren't violent thugs that enjoy throwing their weight around including with their partner, do you know who have bothered to keep themselves in good physical shape and learn some form of defensive skills eg boxing or judo etc so they could fight off an intruder, a car jacker or someone who wanted to attack you, versus how many would just hide alongside you and call the police? How many men want to take on the back breaking physical work of gardening, bothering to keep it looking properly nice including growing some vegetables? How many men have learned effective DIY skills (not bodgy ones) and apply them in a timely manner to make the home nice and keep it in good repair? If they did these things, as well as respecting us and being kind to us, having a job, being a partner in raising children and carrying some of the mental load, we'd be less fussed about whether they cooked the Sunday roast or cleaned the toilet. Their "natural strengths" aren't obsolete, they could apply them to modern life if they wanted to, but they don't. So many off them act useless, not even bothering to take basic care of themselves and their possessions, bring nothing to the table except being someone to split the bills with and provide sperm for the creation of children - then they wonder why, if a woman isn't wanting children/has already done that bit, she CBA to live with their lazy selfish selves.

I got rid of my last boyfriend because he was so low effort. I'd have been ok with a casual relationship where we were also seeing other people, but he didn't want that. So he made a lot of empty promises that he never followed through on, said he wanted us to live together and get married, be a team etc. Then once he'd duped me into falling in love with him, just stalled and stalled endlessly on everything, played the victim about everything and how it supposedly wasn't his fault.

All he had to do, if he wanted an exclusive relationship with me was:

• be clean and tidy (this part he managed).
• be willing to go somewhere and do something, like on a date, once a month.
• stop offloading onto me endlessly every time something annoyed him (he could literally moan for 2hrs solid some nights!).
• put some thought in then go out and buy me a present, gift wrap it however badly and give it to me on my birthday and at Christmas.
• follow through on his promises and actually move in with me and marry me (a small/basic wedding in a registry office with a few people would have sufficed).
• be a partner once we lived together and do housework, share bills etc (probably would have done this but we never got that far!).

That's it! Nothing spectacular. But he couldn't even be bothered to do those bare basics of making an effort.

He wasn't bad company most of the time or horrible to me or anything like that. Apart from having a tendency to complain a lot about whatever. He was basically nice and we got along well. But all he was bringing to the party was his dick and that's just not enough if he wanted committment from me. So I got fed up and binned him off. Now he goes around with puppy-dog-eyes looking for sympathy and claiming not to know why we broke up. It's ridiculous.

So no, I don't think it's sad for men. I think they are the cause of their own singledom and they can be the fix for that too. But it'll involve them getting up off their arses and actually changing their ways permanently, to become people who take part in the world beyond just having a job and a hobby. The real issue is that an awful lot of men don't actually want a relationship, they just want regular sex 🤷

And many on here are older divorced women who own their own homes, have a decent income, a wide social circle, adult DC they’re not financially supporting so don’t need or want a man to bankroll them.

And as someone has said, a man is the easiest thing in the world to find but a man who makes us want to give up our peaceful lives is a rare beast

Exactly, why expend energy hating people because they're not how you'd like them to be? I just don't entertain the idea of being anything other than friends with them now. Think that's the same for a lot of women. We don't hate them, we're just getting on with our lives without them, because we've discovered our lives are better that way.

I do wish they wouldn't lie though, that's my bugbear. But they'll never stop lying because they know that the majority of women want a relationship not just someone to have sex with and they're happy to lie to get what they want.

Why did he have to marry you, out of interest?

Dangerous Jobs! Snort 😆

Most of them act like their office job is dangerous and expect a heroes welcome. And then there’s the never ending emotional support they need to actually do these jobs and to navigate basic office interactions.

Many men don’t earn enough to support a family. Don’t get me started on the men who claim they’re running a successful business when they’re selling crap on eBay. Or the endless stream of cocklodgers and scroungers we see on here.

When does this men = shit, women = great stuff kick in, exactly? My, and my daughters experience of school is that the nastiest, most hideous pieces of are female.

I have often thought about your first sentence too, as I teach lots of wonderful little boys. My experience is around puberty for males, and women don’t spot it until after they’ve had dc as blind to it till then.

Same as. I’ve often thought I’d have been far better off in mixed. The only thing that saved me from an ED / depression as a teenager was acquiring some male friends through friends’ siblings / extra curricular. All of whom were fully pubic by that point.

I remember many men being gentlemen and looking after you at times

Not sure I'm following the logic of this thread - men should be expected to look after women, but if men need looking after they are weak?

Snort all you like but it's true of men as a class, which is what we're talking about:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/gender/overview.htm
Most of the people killed at work are men, and men are more likely to get injured at work. Interestingly, women are more likely to suffer work-related ill health, but the difference is nowhere as big as the male prevalence in the other categories.
Men do most of the the raping and killing, but they also designed, built and maintain 99% of the infrastructure that single women use to live a comfortable independent life. There have been attempts made to encourage women to undertake these activities (e.g. encouraging women to get into STEM education), but women have, as a class, failed to step up.
The difference between me and most of the posters in this thread is that I think that the thing these facts (prevalence of male violence and underrepresentation of women in technical jobs) have in common is that they're both a result of patriarchy. I think there is probably innate difference (e.g. I think it's likely that men have a greater propensity to violence than women - I've no idea about women and technical aptitude), but I think that our society communicates different things to children which lead to these differences becoming entrenched as they grow into adulthood.
It feels like some women don't really want to dismantle patriarchy, they want a sort of castrated patriarchy. They (very understandably) want men to stop raping and abusing them, and they want to be given a fair shot at employment. They want the option to be the main childcare provider, though they would like a decent amount of support with it.
However, they still want men to perform the "male-coded" messy things, taking the bins out, doing DIY, killing the horde of Russians coming over the hill to rape them etc.

Because a solid healthy marriage was always the goal and I lost sight of that when younger and put up with far too much shit. Now, if I'm in a committed relationship, marriage is what I want as part of that. I'm not interested in "acting married" with someone I'm not actually married to. It's just personal choice. I'm not interested in eternal dating or being friends with benefits when there's any expectations of exclusivity. If someone wants exclusivity, I want a shared home, an engagement ring and a venue booked for the wedding. Otherwise I'd prefer to stay single/dating but open to a better offer. It's not about sex, I'm generally only sleeping with one man at a time, it's about possibilities and keeping my options open. I'm not committing to someone who doesn't want to marry me when there's other men out there who might. I like being single though so I don't care if someone breaks up with me if we want different things. I know a lot of people can't stand to be single and will do whatever it takes to be in a relationship of some sort, so I don't expect people to necessarily understand where I'm coming from.

As I said, I was happy for it to be a casual relationship if that's what he wanted, because relationships have to start somewhere anyway. He was the one who initially brought up the issue of marriage before I had mentioned my views on it, said that's what he wanted etc. So I ended up committing to him on that basis, thinking we were on the same page and working towards marriage. Then binned him off later when I realised he was lying about it just so I wouldn't date anyone else. He was wasting my time, because we didn't want the same thing and he knew it but wasn't being honest.

Edited - never mind, I don't want to start and argument. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

It’s no surprise to anyone that men are killed and injured by the very machinery or systems they create.

OK, obviously not worth bothering here. What a pathetic response! This thread is almost parodic at this point.