Should he pay?

[Heriam]

A friend of mine is meeting up with a woman he met via OLD. He is very interested in her for lots of reasons. They are in their 70’s.

When the bill comes, he intends to ask the waiter to split it.

IMO, this is a little crude and paying for dinner would be a nice gesture. AIBU?

He feels that his commitment to male and female equality mean that paying isn’t an option for him. He is a genuine feminist btw. He isn’t weaponising the idea.

I find it t a bit off putting if they don't pay , I know it's perfectly reasonable but it makes it feel transactional to me (assuming he can afford it )

I usually say splitting is best but agree with this "being a feminist doesn’t mean you stop being nice or generous to each other."

If he would otherwise think nothing of treating a mate or his grandkids or a colleague when he was working, or whatever then insisting on splitting solely because it's a date is taking his principles a bit far. If he has a nice time, is really interested in her and wants to make a good impression, it's not going to imply any level of sexism to offer to treat her. The key thing is if she refuses and insists, to accept that.

You feel it off putting if a woman doesn’t pay her way?

He isn't tight at all. Bills etc are 50/50 which is absolutely fine by me as again, I wouldn't be with someone who insisted otherwise but that doesn't mean that we don't buy each other gifts or treat each other.

Why shouldn't he, he's not dead?!

When I was younger I probably would have brushed this off and been fine with it as a modern woman who makes plenty of her own money and doesn't need to be kept by a man etc.

I'm happily married but if I were dating now, with a bit of life experience under my belt, I would only consider getting into a relationship with a man who was very enamoured with me (as well as vice versa!) and with enough about him to actively pursue me. I don't think that relationships between men and women work without that and I wound be perfectly content being alone, so that's my lowest bar!

I would take an immediate request to bill split absolutely fine in the moment but also as a confirmation that he was not that interested and certainly not that interested in impressing me, and so he would not clear that bar for me and there would not be another date. To be clear, if he genuinely offered or assumed to pay I would counter with an offer to split and not be terribly worried where we landed, but the genuine offer from him would speak volumes.

This is so interesting - because I have always been deeply suspicious of men who seem very enamoured of me and pursue me with gusto. It always comes across to me as fake / too intense / possibly controlling / some sort of weird game about their own ego.

I do also notice many of the posters on here wanting help to get out of very bad relationships talk about having been ‘swept off their feet’ at the beginning.

So to me, a man who behaves from the start as though we are both equal people and I’m not something to be bought or won or ‘spoiled’ or ‘ taken care of’ like a child is a green flag.

Yes me too. I’m very aware of ‘love bombing’ behaviour and someone who seems too good to be true.

Of course I want a partner who is really into me and keen but I don’t need to be chased and wooed.

The post earlier about the elaborate charade over paying the bill just left me cold as it just felt so manipulative and icky.

I agree re: the charade of insisting on paying to test someone’s mettle.

But also, this idea of taking turns ‘treating’ one another baffles me. Why bother? I have enough to hold in my mind all the time without also having to keep track of who paid for the last dinner and roughly what it cost, to make sure nobody feels aggrieved.

Splitting the bill just makes it all easier and more straightforward and you can concentrate on enjoying yourselves and getting to know each other, not weird power dynamics and tests and unspoken rules and expectations.

Which is why I stated that his date should be made aware that he expected to split the bill.

He can be subtle. He could send her the link to the restaurant and ask her to look if the food was to her liking and her budget.

He did the inviting and he has chosen the restaurant. He has also chosen to tell his friend that he will be asking the waiter to split the bill because he is a 'feminist'. We have no idea if she knows where she is going

Can he ask his date “I would like to pay for the meal this evening, but I don’t like to make assumptions. How do you feel?”
I’d be happiest with this kind
of approach, it shows generosity but also awareness.

Agree with this. I would insist on splitting, but I’d be unimpressed if he didn’t even pretend to offer to pay.

I’m of the older generation and if a man asked me out I would expect him to pay. I would offer to split the bill but I’d be disappointed if he agreed to that. It just seems more chivalrous for him to do that on a first date. If further dates followed I’d be more than happy to share the bill.

It's funny you say that because as I was writing I was also mentally adding, "but not love-bombing. Maybe I should make that clear. But this is already long and involved enough." ! So I agree!

It IS a difficult balance and an over-the-top, slightly oppressive or dominating insistance is indeed a red flag, but a genuine desire to be generous and show enthusiasm and appreciation for my company is a key ingredient, I think.

To me, not even offering to pay is in the same bracket as taking more than, say, three days to reach back out to arrange to see you again - just not that into you (but will happily continue seeing you if nothing better offers)!

Everyone's different, of course.

I actually feel sorry for men on this one. As evident in the replies here, some woman take offence at the man splitting the bill and some woman take offence at the man paying the bill. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I think it only proves that people shouldn't have dinner as the first date.

What's so difficult about discussing your expectations in advance, instead of springing them on the other person at the end of the meal because of 'feminism'?