Should he pay?

[Heriam]

A friend of mine is meeting up with a woman he met via OLD. He is very interested in her for lots of reasons. They are in their 70’s.

When the bill comes, he intends to ask the waiter to split it.

IMO, this is a little crude and paying for dinner would be a nice gesture. AIBU?

He feels that his commitment to male and female equality mean that paying isn’t an option for him. He is a genuine feminist btw. He isn’t weaponising the idea.

@ShoppingDone which is why if it is first time meeting it should be in a coffee shop where it is easy just to order your own drinks.

it sounds as if he is very keen and has chosen a restaurant and is pushing that - if he has taken control of that he should also take control of the bill

I’ve only ever paid for the whole bill once on a date but that was because I was so desperate to escape it was worth every penny to get out of there!

For me OLD is was also a sign they were being discerning on who they are choosing to date and that they have engaged with my messages, think we have a chance and are genuinely invested. If they are dating three nights a week and looking for a quick shag then I have no problem if they end up out of pocket.

Oh hes a feminist? Great.

How? What work has he done to promote women's rights or close the gender pay gap?

So, nothing, he just wants her to pay her way because he's worried about spending loose change with nothing to show for it. Gross..

Fwiw I wouldn't date anyone that wouldn't pay for the date, and that's because I'm generous and don't want someone who might argue about money in the future.

Anyone going on a date, male or female, should choose something where they can pick up the tab, be that a restaurant, coffee or a free walk.

If a man won't pick up the tab.at the point of wanting to show the best side of himself, he isn't someone i want to date because either he's skint, rich (so it's a test) or just funny about money.

So my advice is for him to get comfortable being alone or accept that he will reap what he sows: a woman who either has low self esteem or will want to pay and perform exactly her fair share of cooking, cleaning and paying for things and not a joy more. Whice imo is joyless and not a partnership.

If they intend on seeing each other again then he should pay and let her repay the favour next time

In that scenario you are never going to know for sure what the other person's intentions are.

He shouldn’t have suggested dinner for a first date. He’d have been much better suggesting something short and simple. He’s applying old fashioned dating rules that don’t apply nowadays, especially not to OLD. Why would you go for dinner with someone you don’t know? As it seems he’s asked and his date has accepted I’d suggest splitting the bill, otherwise he’s going to be bankrupt before he finds someone he’s compatible with.

I think it’s different if you’ve met in real life and know that there’ll be more than one date. In an OLD situation where who knows if you’ll ever even speak again, it’s much fairer to split the bill.

Because a lot of women like me don't want to waste time on someone like him.

I think on a first date splitting the bill is totally normal. If one person pays then the expectation would be a second date where the other does so. Which might be too presumptuous.

Any woman that won't date men that don't always leap to pay for absolutely everything are not in it for the right reasons.

Splitting isn't a sign they don't want to see you again - that's just you pre-judging someone.

There is no evidence at all that men who split bills are loser husbands - what rot. Anecdote does not equal evidence and even if it did, I know plenty of men who split date costs and are excellent parents. My dad is one actually and he's 80!

I think you need to play it by ear.

If a dude invited me out, then wanted to split the bill it wouldn't be a deal-breaker, but it would be noted. The only previous person I 'dated' who did that turned out to be an utter miser, who'd have me pay him back for half his Tescos curry, but happily drink the wine/scotch/desert I brought and not think to pay half for that.

If the evening fell out that way though, then that would be fine, as would alternating, as would (if I didn't feel he was doing it to get one over on me) me paying entirely.

Did he ask her out for the meal? If so, he should offer you pay. If she asked him, she should offer to pay.

I think it is different where one party has organised something specific (such as a sit down meal in a restaurant) which may be reasonably priced to them but is potentially very expensive to the other person. In that case the organiser should at least offer to pay, with the other person free to offer to split if they wish to. As posted previously it is often better to do something cheaper on a first date to avoid this and also during conversation it should come out if both parties are on the same page financially.

As a man you should be expecting to pay it all. If the woman offers to split, then you accept - under a tiny bit of protest perhaps.

Yea but this is mumsnet. Men should be providers. To not pay is unattractive and means they’ll be mean and horrible.

always the way on here.

I always expect to pay for myself on a date and have for about 90% of times.

If he suggested the restaurant, he can afford it, he doesn't date frequently (she it doesn't add up per week) and he really likes her. I do think he should offer to pay. And of he genuinely doesn't want to take her autonomy then he can ask for the bill and ask her if she's ok with him paying or would she prefere to split.

That being said. If he genuinely believes everyone should alway pay for themselves and not treat each other for sake of equality, it is good that she finds out now in case it is a dealbreaker for her.

Why?

It’s fine to split the bill but he shouldn’t make a massive hoo-ha about it, like it sounds as though he plans to.

When it comes one of them can either say “shall we split it down the middle?”’if they’ve had similar or “I had a bit more than you, so I’ll pay a bit extra”. It doesn’t really need thinking about in advance.

I am of a generation where when I was young men did the asking and paying for the first date. Dinner dates were quite common back then.
I wouldn’t expect that now. However I would want to be involved in the decision of choice of restaurant to ensure it was one I was happy to spend my hard earned money in.
I am perfectly willing to pay for my own meal, but not split 50/50 with a stranger. This is both because I don’t want to subsidise his lobster and Kobe steak, or indeed feel that I might need to limit my choices to the cheaper end of the menu so that he didn’t end up
paying for part of my meal.
She may have no idea of the cost of this restaurant as not all women in their 70’s can check online for a menu. She might assume that as he’s invited her he is paying ( even if that is unreasonable)
I think splitting the bill, and how they do this should be addressed before they order. It’s not a case of her not being prepared to pay for herself; she may have a limited budget and prefer a cheaper date, or she may simply choose not to dine in an expensive restaurant at all.

Also one reason why a meal isn’t the best idea of a first date imo

Not 100% sure which bit you're questioning, but this is just what I've observed is the standard tradition.
Like many things, it's probably a mix of chivalry and misogyny and income-realities at least to some degrees.
Certainly I wouldn't start with a more expensive date personally.
And, as a man, if there wasn't at least some half-hearted attempt to share some of the costs, I probably would be less interested in a second date.

If he likes her romantically he should pay. If he wants to be friends then split it. If she’s in her 70’s she may be a bit ‘old school’.
it gives a big message. Old fashioned, I know. Ps. I’m 70.

It’s not about feminism. If I choose a restaurant for dinner with a female friend, I pay. She would choose next time (to suit her budget) and then she pays.

This 100. If I wasn't planning to see them again I'd then say I'd pay half though.

I don’t think first dates should involve a meal. Drinks only and take in turns to pay

Dinosaurs walk among us, eh?