Should he pay?

[Heriam]

A friend of mine is meeting up with a woman he met via OLD. He is very interested in her for lots of reasons. They are in their 70’s.

When the bill comes, he intends to ask the waiter to split it.

IMO, this is a little crude and paying for dinner would be a nice gesture. AIBU?

He feels that his commitment to male and female equality mean that paying isn’t an option for him. He is a genuine feminist btw. He isn’t weaponising the idea.

Really?

I mean I understand they might like that, but I surely women in their 50s wouldn't usually be interested in men in their 70s?

Most of the 70+ daters / new relationships I know are roughly the same age

I think in their age group he is massively risking offending her

Hmmm men are always happy to jump on the feminist bandwagon when it’s in their favour, aren’t they?

Id rather he campaigned for equal pay, but might not be so appealing!

While I think in principle it should be fine to split the bill ( and I did often when OLD), the truth is the decent men always insisted on paying.

It’s a paradox because the men who make a big thing about splitting ALWAYS ended up being ( sexist) wankers.

I don't think my post warranted such a strong reaction, @JHound . I've tried OLD and meeting for coffee is usual. You're meeting a total stranger even if you have chatted online.

Then it clearly WAS an issue for you had the man not paid!

Have we gone back to the 1950s? Should he also place his coat over puddles for her, or aid her to sit at the table by pushing her chair in?

Well the way I operated was I would allow the man to pay if I planned on seeing them again, and would insist on splitting if not.

Mumsnet is very pro 50/50 bill split but is also full of women saying their partner won’t marry them and being expected to fund their maternity leave from their own savings. Not an attractive attitude from a man.

@Heriam he isn't a Feminist hes a man and that specifically excludes him from being 1.
I don't know if its the way you've described him or not but he also sounds like a bit of a twat and the way he speaks about equality between the sexs screams weaponisation of feminism

By asking to split the bill he will ensure that he will never see her again.

I don’t care what feminists say, doing that on first date will broadcast that he is stingy penny pincher and lacking generosity. Major turn off.

Let us know how it goes…

Yes really. I’m in my 50’s and in my brief foray into OLD I was inundated by men from late 60’s right up to 82 trying yo tell me why we’re perfect for each other invariably stating ‘age is nothing but a number’

And no the vast majority of women in their 50’s have no interest at all but it doesn’t stop the men trying

I very much doubt they’d approach the same women in the outside world but OLD seems to make men think women young enough yo be their daughters are gagging for them whether they’re 40 or 90

What if they didn't want to see you again? How would you know until after the event - given that they might have second thoughts? Splitting up front removes that issue altogether. And also demonstrates that you're not a skinflint!

What has maternity leave funding got to do with a dinner date? Literally nothing. It's sheer 'whatboutery'. I can't have kids so strangely enough have never thought about maternity leave arrangements when on a first date, but I doubt that fertile women have either.

I'm glad that Mumsnet is very pro 50/50 because some attitudes belong to former centuries when women often didn't or couldn't work. Paying for your own dinner is hardly burning your bra, it should be the default position.

This.

I do think society should get away from the entitlement of expecting other people to pay your way but it's going to be a generational movement and at her age, yep it would come as a shock.

Take it in turns?

I’ve already posted that it’s a strange quirk of OLD, but the most respectful guys who value women and treat them like equals always pay.

the guys who didn’t were all tossers and were more likely to view dating as transactional.

that’s definitely been my experience and that of many feminist female friends who’ve also been OLD.

and splitting the bill isn’t necessarily ‘feminist’ either - particularly for a man in his 70’s. He has benefited from a system that his given him a financial advantage for 50+ years. He would have probably bought a house for 50p because when he was young women weren’t even allowed to have mortgages.

even if his new date was in same profession, he was very likely being paid more.

he should offer to pay.

I don't do dinner on first dates for this reason. Much prefer a couple of drinks where you both buy a round so you can see if you actually like each other first.

I online dated before settling down with my current partner. If I had no intention of seeing the person again I would insist on splitting the bill, if I wanted to see them again I would let them pay and I would get the bill next time. If I was with someone and they asked proactively for the waiter to split the bill I would assume they weren't that keen on me, and any subsequent invitations I would assume they were "trying to see if there were a connection". I probably wouldnt accept a second date.

I'm in my 60s and would expect to split the bill on a first date.
I can't speak for women in their 70s though - things changed pretty quickly in terms of women not automatically staying at home with children and relying on men for money, so it's possible that some women in their 70s might expect the man to pay, as that's what their experience has been.....

However, on my first date with the man I'm seeing, he insisted on paying - I accepted then I paid on our second date and we've alternated since then.

We don’t have to go back to the 1950s as women still aren’t treated or paid equally to men.

I’d like to see equal pay and equal treatment first, before giving up the very few responsibilities that the patriarchy expects of men to allow them preferential treatment in all areas of life.

I thought society had got away with the whole ‘has penis should pay’ regarding a virtual stranger paying for someone else’s food and drink. I’m pushing 60 and it was an outdated view even in my day.
Im quite surprised to see it seems to be so prevalent nowadays.

Offering to pay is a nice gesture from someone you barely know, expecting it is entitled and grabby

Imagine this board if people minded their own business. It would be empty!

If they didn’t want to see me again then they are a grown man capable of deciding for themselves whether they want to pay or split. I’d take splitting as a sign they didn’t want to see me again and then decline a second date if it was then offered.

The maternity leave thing is totally relevant as IME it’s the same blokes who are keen on 50/50 that also want the women to do the bulk of the parenting AND pay half.

How has the date come about, has he been pushing for it and then made the choice about the restaurant because that to me says he should pay.
if driven equally and restaurants were always suggested then maybe split

Completely agree. However I’ve seen it argued on here as to why women should still sit on their hands while the man buys round after round without her getting her debit card out,

Age complicates things a bit in that she might have an idea that the man would pay. And then next time she would. So she might be put off.

Is she travelling far for the date?

Don’t men end up massively out of pocket if they are paying for every single first date and the woman pays nothing? It does not seem fair to me.

TBF 90% of the men I have met don't have there shit together or claim poverty from divorces or paying for CMS money. Taking my debit card out is just normal as you never know what your going to get.