To not let children have Xmas lunch with grandparents when parents are divorcing

[Iris10000]

Just that really. We are getting divorced, which is DH decision. He needs more time to himself and for his job so in essence is asking to be a Saturday dad with one additional school pick up and drop off. He is very very close to his parents and wants to take kids (10 months and 4 years) to his parents for Xmas lunch for few hours. I will stay at home on my own. My relationship with his parents broken down after they barged into our house and said they always had a problem with me and what a bad person I am. I said he can go there for couple of hours but I would like to have lunch here with them. I am beyond angry and he doesn’t want any to change his plans.

This is a good idea. Hide the car seats. Are you scared of him?

OP I just wanted to share this information about deflection with you. Just a couple of things you have said (plus my world weary eyes) make me think your STBX might be doing this to you a lot. My exH did this so much and would often say I was being unreasonable (or worse) if I ever disagreed with him and you do start to doubt yourself. You do start to feel like maybe you are a bad person. But it is not unreasonable to not want to be alone on Christmas Day, it is not unreasonable to want to spend your baby’s first Christmas them, it is not unreasonable to expect that if you are the primary parent you get to call the shots sometimes. Your opinions and your feelings are valid. You have as much right to get what you want as anyone else.

i found learning about deflection helpful because now when my x does this I recognise the behaviours. I can almost predict when he will do it and find it easier to not just lose my shit with him but take the dignified high ground. When he starts it I can see that this is his flaw, his lack of empathy and unwillingness to accept he might be wrong and not me being horrible. I do literally say to him you are deflecting again can we stick to the topic in hand.

hope everything goes ok for you. Men are dicks.

uktherapyguide.com/deflection-in-psychology-what-it-is-why-people-use-it-and-how-to-deal-with-it

I would feed them a big breakfast in the morning (pancakes etc.) and wouldn't lift a finger to help him get them out of the house. They'll probably leave considerably after 12pm if he doesn't have a lot of experience getting 2 small kids ready and out, by which time you can be bustling about cooking your own Christmas meal anyway.

The other option is to tell him that this year can be his Christmas and you'll be spending the day with family, so he'll have to care for the kids the whole day and overnight.

YANBU. It's in the best interest of these very young children to spend Christmas with their main caregiver, their mother, as the eldest has every previous year. Their father can spend time with them on Christmas Day as well (at least this year as you're still living together), but the grandparents presumably don't have parental responsibility and no "rights" to see the children as such.

The grandparents' hostility towards you means that the only obvious compromise (all of you having Christmas dinner together) probably won't be possible. So, the children should stay with you.

Sadly, I don't know how you could stop your STBEXH taking them. Can you speak to a solicitor urgently?

This advice is all well and good but how exactly is she going to stop him taking the kids 🤷‍♀️

He’s a selfish, controlling, lazy, poor excuse for a father, dick head. I’m so so mad for you, how dare he decide he wants a divorce and only parent on a Saturday and then take the kids away leaving you on your own on Christmas Day ! It’s not fair !!!

However I don’t see how you can stop him without causing a fight and upsetting the kids. So do it for the kids, keep that in mind, have a really great morning and then chill out in the afternoon. Then after the New Year you take back some control and get a solicitor or he’s going to continue to call the shots. You can do this 💐

Surely, in tgat case, he takes the 4 year old, but you keep the youngest? His parents are going to have to get used to the change.

I’m really sorry you are going through this OP. I get that your in-laws would like to see their child (and kids) on Christmas Day, but I’m shocked that they think it’s ok to take very young children away from their mother in the process!! Your baby’s first Christmas?! Horrendously selfish. Their child is an adult, they’ve had all the childhood christmases with him. To intentionally deprive you is awful.

I know you don’t like them (understandably!), but I would be tempted to compromise on letting them see your children for Christmas lunch (if it makes your life easier), but at your house, with you there and for a set period of time. I think that would be very generous given the circumstances. Letting your ex and his parents do as they please now, could easily set a precedent for future christmases etc. Hope you manage to find a resolution you are happy with 💜

”I will allow my children to attend for two hours if and only if your parents give me a sincere apology for that mistaken outburst.
I’d text that to him - he’ll show it to them hahaha.

I would dearly love to hear you say this, @Iris10000although it’ll probably get you nowhere.
But then the kids stay home yay!
But they owe you that sincere apology.
And you might get it, depending on how bad they want to see their grandchildren.

Excellent idea. Weaponise the treatment of the children in order to piss him off. Fortunately there’s no way he can retaliate in kind, so it’s not as if you’d be behaving in a way that’ll lead to an escalation of petty strategies in which the kids become vehicles for their estranged parents’ cycle of resentful feuding. This course of action will have no effect on them and they won’t be in the least emotionally fucked-up by it.

I don't think the kids are going to have a fabulous Christmas with their parents fighting over them. The husband's in the wrong, but being right isn't the solution here.

They've got 11 months after this to sort out their arrangements.

Tell him he wanted Saturday parenting, so Christmas isn't on a Saturday this year therefore it's your time with the kids. Seriously though - get this sorted with a lawyer cos he is showing all the signs of weaponising children and no regard whatsoever for your life. By the way, he is unlikely to get to keep the house because you have residence of the kids. So stay in it

It’s your youngest child’s first Christmas for heavens sake, of course he can’t do this to you. Just tell him calmly, you are their mother and you want to spend the full day with them. If he wants to take them to see his parents, he can do this on Boxing Day.

Yeah, men like him always tell women we're "unreasonable and difficult" when we don't just accept their terrible behaviour. Next you'll be "vindictive" and, probably, "mad". Ignore it all and do nothing without the advice of your solicitor - have you got one yet? If he starts telling you it'll be simpler / easier / cheaper to agree things without lawyers, don't fall for it.

Just tell him to fuck off
If you’re not actually divorced and you don’t actually have any childcare arrangements in place right now then you haven’t sorted Christmas out. Christmas will be at your house. He can attend if he wants.
He’s not taking the children out of the house

I wouldnt hide the car seats because he sound idiotic enough to take them without car seats and yes while you could try to wrench the children out of his arms and/or call the police that is distressing for the kids

I would beg your sibling to accommodate you and leave xmas eve while he is out of the house, spend the day there xmas day. If you can

Thats if he wont compromise at all, its perfectly reasonable to have the kids at the family home morning and lunchtime and visit GPs in the afternoon, perfectly reasonable plan. If he cant be reasonable then you may have to take other action

And the poster who queries why his solicitor told him to stay in the house, its obvious isnt it, the house is also his house, if he leaves it, he is making himself homeless, although he might have somewhere to stay at his parents, ultimately it is his home, he doesnt have to leave, any solicitor worth their salt will tell a client not to leave.

He doesn't decide what he will pay, the court does. Seriously, don't fall for this. Forget about what he says and his parents and everything else and focus on getting everything you're entitled to for you and your kids.

Let him and his parents be flexible too - tell them they can change their plans and do Xmas dinner/tea for the kids evening meal so you get the day with the kids?

You know that type well! Yes he said I am mad and his parents said I need to go on medication for my mental state ( I was 3 weeks postpartum when I was summoned to their house to listen how I hurt them over the years. It will haunt me for a long time. All because I dared to say their dear son was snappy with me and not helping with the newborn when he was secretly venting off to his female work colleague).

Have you had legal advice?
I don’t mean for Christmas - for the house, joint investments, children etc. It sounds as if he’s setting expectations.
You must get your own advice.

As for Christmas Day I’d let it go on the basis I’ll get next year and his grand ‘tradition’ will be every other year from now on whether he likes it or not. Next Christmas your baby will be a toddler.

But I wouldn’t pack nappy bags etc. if he wants to parent he takes full responsibility.
It will feel shit. But - provided you get independent legal advice - next year should be better.

Sorry he turned out to be an arsehole. No decent man would behave like this to his children.

I would make the kids a special Xmas breakfast, pancakes, chocolate, make their own toppings (well, for the 4 year old anyway) crackers etc. it could be the start of your new tradition with them when you don’t have them for Xmas. Xmas lunch is overrated from a kid’s point of view, they’ll enjoy the breakfast much more. Can you go elsewhere while they’re having lunch at the grandparents, so you’re not alone?

All you need to say is that the children will be spending Christmas day at home with you and that he can arrange for them to see his parents on a Saturday once a fortnight during his own contact time. The end. I worry that if you give in to him when he is being so utterly unreasonable, he will think this is how it's going to be going forwards. He should not even be attempting to dictating to you. A baby and a 4 year old should be at home with their mum. Abusive grandparents, or indeed any grandparents, have no rights here.

yup. Weaponising the children is unforgiveable whoever does it.

Say - Given your day is Saturday, I will need to ponder which time suits best on Christmas Day for them to go with you to see Granny and Grandpa.
Think about your children and how they would best cope wtih a couple of hours out with their Dad. Choose a time based on that.

I'm so sorry, Op. What a nasty, selfish man.

He can't have it both ways and only cherry pick the nice / fun parts of parenting. His parents sound entitled like he is. In your shoes l would start putting my foot down so he knows how it's going to be post divorce. They could have lunch together on the 27th as that's a Saturday