to think wedding vows are a load of tosh?

[BeQuirkyMintScroller]

All anyone can promise is to be honest.

Just the idea that you can promise to always feel a certain way no matter what life throws at you for the the rest of your life is insane. You cant really choose your feelings.

AIBU to think that the only vow should be:

"I will always be honest [with you about how I feel]"

and maybe a second one of

"I will not get angry with you for being honest"

I have been to lots of weddings that wildly promise feelings of forever and always. But then again I've never married so am not really qualified!

Mnetters experienced in love and war - AIBU?

Nope, I was thinking about the realistic stuff about richer/poorer and sickness and in health. Long marriages have their ups and downs and if you’re not willing to work though then you shouldn’t get married IMO. I was disagreeing with OP that th vows should just be “I’ll be honest”. People should read them and really think about what they’re committing to before they get married. Too much focus on proposals and rings and weddings and not enough on the realities of building a life and family together.

that doesn’t mean I think women should obey men or put up with abuse 🙄

I've managed to keep mine for 30 years. I even vowed to obey which we tried to get removed but the Vicar, who happens to be my FIL, refused to change them. I remember arguing that even Princess Di didn't haw to promise to obey. He was having nine of it. He has very old fashioned views about women sadly.

DH ,who is nothing like his father, has never expected me to obey him so I've never had to worry about keeping to that one.

I’m getting married again at 58, and am hoping to have the Book of Common Prayer vows but the 1928 adaptation with ‘obey’ removed. Almost 100 years old…

@AngelsWithSilverWings I’ve been married for 45 years in March. We omitted “obey” in 1981. Not that DH has taken much notice of our vows but that’s another story. I’ve kept mine.

Absolutely certain having had one and been to a million of them. They are totally legally binding, we didn’t need a civil ceremony and we have a normal marriage certificate

No you don’t. The Jewish ceremony is legally binding you don’t need anything seperate and there are no words said in English, the woman doesn’t speak.

They’re just symbolic words for sentiment of wedding day. Anyone is free to write their own (other than in certain venues), and it’s the couple that need to be happy with them, not the guests listening.

In the past Wedding vows could not be personalized as they were set by the Church.
So they were very prescriptive.
Also I would argue after 20+ years of marriage and children that love is an emotion but it is very often also a decision and an action. Eg my teen is being very difficult and I still love them, set boundaries and don’t boot them out my house. Or my husband comes home in a bad mood and I listen to him complain about his day and don’t rant about mine. Or do it later.
Love is sacrificial - I don’t mean accepting abuse.
So it also depends on the seriousness that people take their vows and also the general support for marriage in society. Which I think is less (in general) than in the past. It was a great social disgrace to abandon your spouse. Now much less so.
You can’t choose your feelings but you can choose to love someone with actions. The vast majority of marriages go through difficult stages due to circumstances/hardship of behavior or 1 or both spouses. But that doesn’t mean rhe marriage is over. It could need a lot of care, attention, kindness etc.
Thats why choosing a spouse is so important and not to be taken lightly.

https://aish.com/the-jewish-marriage-from-love-to-covenant/

This is a good summary. The groom says some words when he gives the ring. In orthodox weddings the groom doesn’t get a ring. If he wants one the bride gives it to him after the ceremony. The bride does not say a word. It’s all completely legal

I married at a Manor House earlier this year and when we booked the registrar online there was a list of vows to choose from. Me and DH chose different vows.

The vows aren't about always feeling a certain way, they're about always acting a certain way despite your feelings. The use of 'love' is not intended to refer to the internal emotion as much as to treating the person in a loving way.
The whole point of getting married is to agree to stay with the person and behave in the agreed way until death. Divorce exists in the event one or other breaks the promise, not as an open door if your feelings change.
If you are not confident you will always want to behave in the agreed way, then, really, marriage in the traditional sense isn't for you. Its not for a lot of people in fact, so perhaps we need the option of a different contract with a ten year break clause or something to reflect this.

Love is a choice. I choose to love my husband every day. I choose to love my friends every day.

Love is a verb. When you may it's something you commit to doing, not a wrong and a prayer that you'll feel a particular way every minute of the day forevermore, and if you don't you'll jack it in. That's why it's called a 'vow'. It's a solemn promise.

There are things which take precedence over that vow, including the health and wellbeing of children and your own right not to be abused, for example, but I think you've fundamentally misunderstood what wedding vows are promising.

But did you say the declaratory and contractual words? Vows are optional but everything I've seen says those two parts are required. And that the rabbi must be a registrar or accompanied by a registrar (I got married in a non CofE church so similar requirements)

“I promise to love you until I get bored” is a shite vow and the whole point of marriage is that you love each other through the boredom. (Of course, abuse/infidelity changes matters).

No as I said before I didn’t say a word. I’m not sure why you don’t believe me. The rabbis are also registrars yes.

This^
We made the traditional vows too, although i did not promise to obey and serve as i had no intention of doing this!
But we both promised
To love and to cherish, for richer for poorer in sickness and in health, foresaking all others ,to comfort and honour , share all out worldly goods .
And we meant it ,its our intention.
If one person breaks the vows then the other person cant be expected to still keep theirs.

I take mine very seriously. We didn’t have to get married - it was entirely by choice.

I don’t think they’re about what you feel, but what you promise to do. Loving and cherishing a person require effort and action.

Honesty is a very hard one. Maybe it’s just me, because I grew up in a family where being economical with the truth was a survival mechanism. I find it very hard to be completely open and transparent. Dh is one of those very rare people who can hold space for honesty, and keep his ego or pride out of it, when that honesty is clumsy or messy, and not packaged in loving, respectful terms. But I don’t think most people can be completely honest, or bear complete honesty.

Because of this law and everything I was told during my wedding planning:

(1)In section 44(3) of the [1949 c. 76.] Marriage Act 1949 (which sets out a declaration and words of contract required to be made and used by the parties in the course of a marriage ceremony in a registered building

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/en/ukpga/1996/34/enacted

I'm honestly not trying to be difficult, I just want to understand. I was very firmly told that all legally binding weddings must have those two parts and what I've seen in legal documentation seems to confirm.

I think it is a legal requirement in the UK to make declaratory vows, i.e. to state that you're free to marry and that you intend to marry the specific person. These might not be considered vows in the same way that other ceremonial promises may be, though.

I agree. I think promising to love someone forever because you’re enjoying shagging them right now is childish. Its absolutely not a basis for a life and is setting everyone up for failure. Which is why I would never get married again.

Marriage should be stripped back to brass tacks and be focused around the legal and contractual stuff. If people want to promise they won’t hate one another in 40 years let them crack on but its honestly ridiculous.

Jewish weddings conducted by a Rabbi have been legal in the UK for over 200y (100y before civil weddings were legalised) and have never AFAIK been required to change any part of the service.

@christmassytimeagainDid you meet privately with the Rabbi immediately before the ceremony to make that declaration? Did your dh make the declaration while signing the ketuba?

If you think about it, it is quite bonkers. Humankind has created this arbitrary promise that you will stay with one person for the rest of your life, regardless. And for what purpose? I know it works for many people through finding someone they can live alongside until one of them dies but it is a completely social construct.

Yes. All we said was that we were free to marry and were marrying one another.

I don’t recall having any conversation with the rabbi about being free to marry. I don’t know what the rabbi discussed with my husband when they signed the Ketubah. It’s not a legal document so it I doubt it. As I said before, we also have a normal marriage certificate. Maybe another Jewish MN’er can comment as honestly I have no recollection whatsoever of being asked anything formal about being free to marry