Why do men hate women so much?

[growingsideway]

I’m on the larger side, a size 18. Walking back from work with my headphones in and on my phone and a guy leans out of his car window (passenger side) in slow moving traffic, barks at me like a dog and calls me a fat bitch. Him and his mates in the car then crack up at it and find themselves absolutely hilarious as they’re crawling along next to me.

I know it’s silly to be so upset by it because it’s such a silly thing for them to do, but they took me by surprise and gave me a fright and I just don’t get it. Why are men like this?

Real men don't hate women. Dick heads do. And the people you encountered were dick heads. The End!

Parroting NAMALT isn't challenging anything. Its using a trite little drop and run sound bite to distract women from a conversation they wish to have about patterns of male behaviour, how they impact us, where we think they originate, and what might be done about it.
Very few women on here think its literally ALL men, every single one. We're not stupid. What most of us are saying is its very many men, either actively engaging in harmful behaviour towards us, or passively colluding. And we will talk about that, whether you like it or think it harms men or not.
If anyone wants to challenge that and wants to be taken seriously, then they should be providing strong and compelling evidence that shows male behaviour against women and girls is not the problem we, and the government and the chief of policing think it is.
Bleating 'it's only some men' is as pointless as it is tiresome.

No, it isn't. Women can be very very mean about each others' appearance.

Yes, I have. Also have been beaten up by female bullies at school. I'm not denying that men are on average more violent than women, but this idea that they are never mean or threatening is just nonsensical, I'm afraid.

Men are so tribal and their behaviour tends to be appalling when they are in pack mode.
There are men that are courteous and kind but I would add - not all men!

The stats speak for themselves. Men as a sex class pose a real danger for women as a sex class.

I don't disagree, infact I haven't seen anyone on this thread claim otherwise.

My question was...

What is it that you find despicable about people who - in good faith - are uncomfortable with the notion that all/most men are bad/hate women?

No, the men I am friends with wouldn’t do that ever. I just know they wouldn’t. It’s a certain type of man, who when in groups just turn into arseholes.

If anyone wants to challenge that and wants to be taken seriously, then they should be providing strong and compelling evidence that shows male behaviour against women and girls is not the problem we, and the government and the chief of policing think it is.

I genuinely haven't seen anybody on this thread suggesting that it's not the problem we think it is. The posts I've seen have an issue with the idea that all/most men are inherently bad/a danger to women.

Bleating 'it's only some men' is as pointless as it is tiresome.

All sweeping generalisations are pointless and tiresome. I feel the same about people saying "Not all men" as I do about people saying "Most men hate women".

The biggest regret of my life is getting involved with a man who worked as a policeman.

That's what you take from this?

So if we're all in agreement that male behaviour is the problem we think it is, any ideas why some people think its more important to remind us there are nice men too and regale us with their tales about unpleasant women, rather than let us discuss the problem?
If everyone on the thread thinks it's a problem, (they dont btw, one treated us to "its not 'gendered'.." very early doors) then why are some people so anxious to distract us from talking about it?

By men.

I see the 'not all men' brigade are out.

Men do not need us to defend them. The good ones need to put more effort into calling out misogyny. They need to collectively do better.

And people saying 'well women can be bitches too'?, when the fuck have you ever been cat called and had random verbal abuse shouted at you from an unknown woman? I don't dispute there are some horrible women, but it doesn't usually take that format.

The majority of violent and sexual crimes are committed by men. You only need to look at cases like Giselle Pelicot to realise how many 'normal' men would consider harming women if they thought they could get away with it.

Sorry but I can't be doing with people coming on a thread where a woman has posted a horrible story about being harassed due to her appearance, only for people to be staring with the 'not all men' bullshit. It's large majority of men, and we don't know which ones are decent. This is absolutely a gendered problem.

@Ladamesansmerci

Men do not need us to defend them. The good ones need to put more effort into calling out misogyny. They need to collectively do better.

So the good ones are not good?
All men are bad (collectively as a sex class)?

This. Some men are very controlling and are outraged that women WON'T JUST GIVE THEM SEX!

My partner was driving his daughter’s battered old fiat to the garage a couple of weeks ago when a very angry man in a Audi cut him up and stopped dead in front of him nearly causing a crash. Apparently he got out raging and when he approached the car my 6 foot 3 partner unfolded himself and got out, all the colour drained from his face and he scuttled back to his car and drove off
He obviously thought it would have been a woman driving that he could intimidate and bully. The majority of these types of men are cowards and like to bully women to try and make their inadequate selves feel better

I don't think anyone here in good faith is trying to distract people from talking about it. Unfortunately there are always people posting 'Not all men' and nothing else of value in these threads to be pedantic or belittle the OP - I pay them no mind.

But it's also possible as part of this conversation to respond to posts that make sweeping generalisations (as OPs did) about all or most men being inherently bad or dangerous to women.

If the conversation is to be productive in any way, it has to be conducted in good faith, and you can't do that from a false starting point.

It's because they can drive away quickly. Just cowards.

I've had two men yell at me about my weight in my life. It's because I wasn't performing my gender correctly - i.e. being pleasing to the male eye.

ETA: I've also been very slim in my younger years, and I got a ton of sexual harassment. So you can't win, really. If I lived near Hebden Bridge I'd go to the Hebden women's disco, if it's still on, just to have a dance without men being arseholes.

What this thread has shown to me, and sadly, so many of the sexual assualt and rape and abuse posts on Mumsnet, is that women are victims twice over and are still expected to carry the trauma.

You are assaulted.

You must think of how you are seen and you are judged if you report it. You carry that double assault.

You carry the weight of his female family and friends and the trauma that they feel, and society also blames you for.

School. You mean children's behaviour? You're comparing children to fully grown men?

My dickhead neighbour said to DH while in a heated exchange with him, your wife's old. WTF? I'm 48, and this wanker is at least 60 with a face so weather beaten from the Aussie sun. DH laughed at him and said I'm not sure you're in a position to comment.

But the misogyny with these types of males is indoctrinated.

He's been a terrible human and I can 💯 understand why his family are no longer in contact with him.

Let me tell you something @growingsideway, they don't like beautiful women either.

It's not you. It's them.

Previous posters have tried to tell you that women are cruel and violent.

Maybe.

Maybe.

I used to be bullied by girls for years. It never bothered me.

Blokes that hurt my friends? No.

No.

I hated those fuckers.

Women can be just as nasty

Many of the women I know from my kids school days laud their male kids publicly on how well behaved they are with women. They raised them right.

I've never disabused them of their notions. But as the mother of two twenty something women, I can assure you that most of your male sons are shits.
They ALL want naked photos. Navigating that is not about walking away, but trying to convince them to wait. They ALL abuse you verbally if you say no.
Some of them ask for proof you have a boyfriend if you say no to a date.
Honestly it's disgusting.

And the middle aged male demographic is horrendous also. Over half your husbands have shagged someone from the pta alone.
They are not walking the dog daily to help you.
Their hobbies don't take that much time.
They tell the women they court that they can use these excuses as reasons they won't be found out. They will also tell the women that they're courting that you're dying or mentally unwell to elicit sympathy.

And bloody hell, the older ones are worse. Those are the ones that create epic sob stories. They are so alone. They don't know what to do. Blah blah.

And these are the men that don't rape you. These are the men who are considered good .

Now I admit, there's a possibility I live in a very sex forward male dominated area of the south east. But I doubt it. I think this is replicated everywhere.

I had two kids in different year groups so 60 couples? I know two men who didn't cheat. That I know about. I know about 4 women that did. And I'm not saying they told me, or there were rumours, I mean that I actually walked in on or saw. That many over what, 14 years?