All our children are different religions, Christmas is feeling overwhelming

[Ellipsie]

DH and I have 4 children, all now adults, all married. We are CofE Christians, our children were raised CofE Christians and Christmas for us has always been religion first.

Our eldest DD married a lovely Muslim and converted to Islam. Her 2 children are being raised Muslim.
Our youngest DD married her best friend from secondary school, he is Jewish, he leans liberal and isn’t as devout as DD1s family, but they celebrate Jewish holidays, go to synagogue for Yom Kipur/Rosh Hashanah etc. and always without fail have Shabbat dinner with his family. Their daughter is now 3 so more aware than in previous years.
Both of our DS are loosely Christian, church on Easter and Christmas only but do view Christmas as being religion first.

For our daughters they both have different approaches to Christmas.
My eldest daughter doesn’t want any presents for her children for Christmas, she has asked we celebrate them at Eid instead, which is of course understandable and absolutely fine. They will be joining us for dinner on Christmas Day though.
Our youngest daughter has a different approach where by they still celebrate Christmas “culturally”, so they do Father Christmas and have a Christmas tree etc. They also allow us to give their child a gift at Christmas.

Now our grandchildren are no longer babies I am finding it all a bit tricky to navigate. This year we have 7 grandchildren.
Our eldest DDs 2 children are now 4 and 2, our eldest son has a 3 year old and a 1 year old, our younger son has a 2 year old and a newborn and our youngest daughter has a 3 year old.

This is the first year we will be hosting Christmas with children who are aware of what’s going on. I’m terrified that as DD1 doesn’t want us give her children gifts they are going to feel awful as we will be giving the others gifts. I thought we could get around this by having our grandchildren who will get gifts come over earlier and receive them but as DD2 isn’t Christian and doesn’t do church that won’t be possible.

At the same time I’m also terrified about getting the language right, Christmas has always been religious for us, but now I’m thinking do I need to present everything as “well granny and grandad believe this, but others don’t”?

It’s got me very stressed out and I don’t want to upset or offend any of my children.

AIBU to struggle with this? Does anyone have any advice or ideas on how I can make this work?

While it’s not constant, we do of course reference religion, praying before we eat, traditional hymns playing etc. to me it wouldn’t really be Christmas if it were secular.

I know many will disagree, but this strikes me as unreasonable.

Do you really need to pray aloud before you eat? Couldn't you just have a few seconds silence where everyone can think their own prayer or thoughts?

Do you really need to have hymns playing for the few hours your family will be there?

When you are entertaining guests, surely it’s normal to make changes to the way you usually do things when you’re on your own. A good host/hostess does not do things that they know will make some of their guests uncomfortable.

Surely the point is that it is YOUR celebration and therefore YOU are the one giving gifts to the kids? That doesn’t mean they are the ones celebrating? I give Christmas gifts to Muslims and have received many from them in return. We also used to give our Muslim neighbours gifts in Eid. You are respecting the other person’s celebration, not joining the religion. Your DD sounds difficult.

It sounds stressful. Why don't you skip the presents and give them a bag to take home? The presents aren't religious anyway and lots of cultures do them on a different day - we usually do some on Christmas eve.

I'd prefer to keep it simple and change my traditions to reduce the stress. I assume you'll still go to church so you'll still get to celebrate even if you don't play hymns in the background.

In your shoes I would just take the children who are celebrating Christmas's gifts round on Xmas Eve or similar.

I'd personally be happy to keep things completely secular on the day if it made my children more comfortable, but I appreciate this may be trickier if you are quite religious yourself.

The best solution sounds like everyone to yours for Christmas but DD1 and her family come over another day to see you. They can’t be annoyed to miss out on Christmas with you because it’s a non day for them. Then this solves the argument, present, food issues

This is a crazy suggestion, can’t even say grace in your own home for fear of offending others on Christmas Day - a Christian celebration

Can your God only hear you if you speak aloud?

I presumed that OP added the word 'lovely' to avoid posters trying to create a narrative about her son in law being controlling or forcing OP's DD to forgoe a treaditional Christmas.

It's not unusual for these kinds of threads to attract racists or islamphobics.

That’s not really the point is it. If you want to pray out loud go ahead :)

Converts can be very trying

I'd buy gifts for the little one. Put them in a bag away from the main gifts, tuck them behind the tree. If the child does have a meltdown let mummy deal with it quietly let them know you've wrapped presents and they're behind the tree but it's their call. If they won't relent save them for Eid.

DD1 sounds like a complete stirrer. I would assume she's coming to cause trouble given she's clearly not there for the meal, the celebration or her siblings.

I would either give her children a present (and tell her beforehand that you will not be leaving them out) or do presents separately- perhaps on Christmas Eve. And I would have an unapologetically religious day - grace, church, decorations, music - the lot.

I'm sad that nobody seems to be thinking of the OP in this. It is very painful to have family reject your religion. Who is looking out for and supporting you, OP?

At least you all believe in the same God.

Yes, absolutely, if you want to do it, do it. If, on the other hand, you want to show courtesy to guests you know would be uncomfortable with it, don’t do it.

Celebrate Christmas as usual, don’t worry about the no gifts your DD can deal with her children being upset if they are. Like your own children their children may choose their own faith though currently all of them are people of the book . Who knows their kids may grow up as non believers.

Your DD1 is behaving selfishly. I'm sorry you are having to negotiate your way through this.

She is placing you in an impossible position, which will make her children feel unhappy. At that age children often see presents as proxies for how loved they are. So they are furious and very hurt if it appears another child in the family gets more expensive presents from Mum & Dad or the Grandparents and so he or she is more loved.

This isn't an argument for children being given large expensive presents, of course. Just that all the children are treated similarly.

I would buy presents for DD1's children and keep them hidden. If (let's be honest here, when) they get upset I'd take DD1 aside and confess I have already got them presents for Eid, can they have these early? Wrap them in neutral (or Eid appropriate) paper of course.

She'll almost certainly cave. And so she should. If you're a guest you should behave like one, and be grateful and do your very best to fit in and not cause unhappiness.

On the upside, I think that her wanting to attend Christmas lunch is a positive sign. Having your own children can bring back so many happy memories of your own childhood christmases.

Wishing you all a very happy Christmas!

If you go to someone's house on the day of a religious festival it would be unreasonable not to expect them to celebrate it! If the OP visits her daughters for Shabbat or Eid would the dds remove religious prayers from the event? Of course they wouldn't, nor should they.
What would be unreasonable would be to make your guests take part in the prayers.
But I'm surprised the siblings are still speaking to their sister since she refused to go to their weddings.

Well this seems rather selfish of DD. I can imagine the 4yr old being upset and understandably so. She doesnt get a choice what religion she is following. I know Muslims who celebrate Christmas as in the commercial element not the religious side.

I would do it in a traditional Christmas way including a small from for each of them but don’t go crazy. I wouldn’t do Father Christmas under these circumstances.

Can you communicate directly with him in advance and ask him to help you navigate this? I would want to say that you want to welcome them all into your Christmas. You don’t want to dilute your Christmas to the point where it isn’t recognisable. Would he be able to support you doing what you normally do and your grandchildren learning that one set of grandparents have different cultural and religious practices (and a set of cousins also have a third set)? It could be such an amazing opportunity for all your grandchildren to experience the similarities and differences, and also for them to understand that, just as they are all family, these religions are all part of the same family of faiths.

Small gift each I mean.

You sound like a kind and thoughtful mother and grandmother. It sounds like you are doing your best. If the GC who don't get presents are upset then that's down to their parents to explain to them why, not you. Please don't stress.

Your eldest daughter sounds like a nightmare and she could well ruin your day. Can you see her and her fam another day? It isn't right to "insist" on things when you are a guest.
You should celebrate Christmas your way. Why does her religion trump yours? It's ridiculous. There is no need for her to make it a battleground.
I would arrange presents for another day if she is coming, as her child will be upset to have none. She has no right to disrupt your own religious observance especially in your home. Why should you give presents for Eid when you don't believe in it? Who is looking out for you in all this?
I get that you want everyone together but you could do that another time? And have a nice Christmas without being made to feel awkward. Your daughter knows how important your religion is so she should respect it, like you do hers.

Why are you tip toeing around their new found religions, surely it should be up to the ones who decided to convert to navigate all this? They know you are Christians and always have been, they will know how Christmas works in your house so they should be able to slot back into what was once their religion/festive holiday too if they decide to join you. They need to respect your traditions too, not have you tie yourself in knots trying to accommodate them.

It does seem odd that they still want to join in Christmas day but then stipulate things like no presents, surely you either join in or you don't? If I was hosting I'd say they should either arrive a couple of hours after everyone else or take themselves off for a walk/local pub for a couple of hours so everyone else can do presents and it doesn't spoil the santa magic for the other children. They should be coming up with a solution to this though if it is their choice not to join in, not expecting you to somehow come up with something that keeps everyone happy.

Bit rude! Islam has huge requirements around its worship, many of which are very sexist towards women and girls. Women (however clever, brave, good and charismatic) cannot be imams. And women and girls are strictly forbidden from the Mosque's main prayer hall which is reserved only for use by men and older boys.

It makes Christianity (even High Church Catholicism) seem positively feminist and warmly mellow!

Imagine all the voices going on in his head, it must be 24/7 cacophony.

Personally I’d be booking a holiday away every year if I had to navigate all this.