All our children are different religions, Christmas is feeling overwhelming

[Ellipsie]

DH and I have 4 children, all now adults, all married. We are CofE Christians, our children were raised CofE Christians and Christmas for us has always been religion first.

Our eldest DD married a lovely Muslim and converted to Islam. Her 2 children are being raised Muslim.
Our youngest DD married her best friend from secondary school, he is Jewish, he leans liberal and isn’t as devout as DD1s family, but they celebrate Jewish holidays, go to synagogue for Yom Kipur/Rosh Hashanah etc. and always without fail have Shabbat dinner with his family. Their daughter is now 3 so more aware than in previous years.
Both of our DS are loosely Christian, church on Easter and Christmas only but do view Christmas as being religion first.

For our daughters they both have different approaches to Christmas.
My eldest daughter doesn’t want any presents for her children for Christmas, she has asked we celebrate them at Eid instead, which is of course understandable and absolutely fine. They will be joining us for dinner on Christmas Day though.
Our youngest daughter has a different approach where by they still celebrate Christmas “culturally”, so they do Father Christmas and have a Christmas tree etc. They also allow us to give their child a gift at Christmas.

Now our grandchildren are no longer babies I am finding it all a bit tricky to navigate. This year we have 7 grandchildren.
Our eldest DDs 2 children are now 4 and 2, our eldest son has a 3 year old and a 1 year old, our younger son has a 2 year old and a newborn and our youngest daughter has a 3 year old.

This is the first year we will be hosting Christmas with children who are aware of what’s going on. I’m terrified that as DD1 doesn’t want us give her children gifts they are going to feel awful as we will be giving the others gifts. I thought we could get around this by having our grandchildren who will get gifts come over earlier and receive them but as DD2 isn’t Christian and doesn’t do church that won’t be possible.

At the same time I’m also terrified about getting the language right, Christmas has always been religious for us, but now I’m thinking do I need to present everything as “well granny and grandad believe this, but others don’t”?

It’s got me very stressed out and I don’t want to upset or offend any of my children.

AIBU to struggle with this? Does anyone have any advice or ideas on how I can make this work?

The politics around gift giving needs to be managed by your daughter. Your DD1 needs to explain to her children that their cousins will be receiving presents as is the custom at Christmas. She also needs to explain that she’s asked granny not to buy them a gift, but granny will give them a gift when they celebrate Eid instead.

All the other stuff should remain the same - grace before eating, background carols. DD1 knows what Christmas at your place is like and it’s unreasonable for her to expect you to forego your faith, and cultural, traditions in favour of her own.

You sound like a lovely thoughtful mother/grandmother and I wish you a peaceful Christmas.

@Ellipsie firstly you sound really thoughtful!!
Could you maybe just send a group message saying something like "really looking forward to having everyone here making lovely memories together! I know we all celebrate or believe things differently and I love you all so much so please be gracious and patient with me if I get things wrong or muddled - hopefully we all enjoy the chaos/day etc" or something like that. I think children (even adult ones) can have really high expectations of their parents always getting things 'right' and a little reminder that we are human/things are tricky framed kindly might remind them particularly DD1 to be kinder and more patient with things if they dont go to plan.!?

Is there a reason why you felt the need to tell us that your eldest dd married a “lovely” Muslim?
Why wouldn’t he be?

Why would anyone be on her side though? She tries to start arguments about religion and she refused to attend her brothers' weddings. If Muslim imams can participate in events at Westminster Abbey then there was nothing in her religion stopping her from attending her brothers weddings. She now refuses to let her parents give her kids Christmas presents while insisting in being there for Christmas day and knowing all the other children will receive presents from their grandparents. She's an unpleasant and intolerant person who will just ruin the day for everybody with her current attitude.

You are being amazingly kind and thoughtful about this. I am feeling it is your DD1 who is the main one you are worried about upsetting. Have one more conversation with her and explain you are getting gifts for the other children and would love to get at least one gift for her child(ren) - and check she has a plan for managing any issues if her own children are upset if they receive nothing. Do not completely change what you do - this is your celebration of Christmas- to which she is invited and welcome.

Christians choose to celebrate CHRISTmas on the 25 of December.

I think if DD1 wants to be there then she accepts that you do Christmas your way and she needs to accept that. Otherwise she shouldn't come. Everyone else is fine with that, and she should know how important it is to you.

Horrible men come in all religions, cultures, colours and sizes, your being difficult and seeing something that’s not there.

This is not for the OP to Police, she’s got enough to worry about without adding to her load!

OP - what have you done in previous years? And have you provided Christmas food suitable for a halal diet? Your daughter won’t be able to eat a non halal turkey, or the usual trimmings like pigs in blankets. It was a mine field when I prepared Christmas lunch when my daughter still joined us - no bacon over the turkey when it was cooking or sausage meat stuffing inside the neck, no goose fat for the potatoes, no bacon in the sprouts, alcohol free mince pies and xmas pudding and I found thst bloody nutmeg seems to be in just about anything that is vaguely festive. I made my daughter and husband vegetarian alternatives for pigs in blankets, vegetarian gravy, etc but it was very difficult not to inadvertently do something wrong eight a meal like that!

With all the anti-Islam/Islamophobia sentiments around, it’s actually a lovely description. So DD 1 married a lovely man who is Muslim. Would the be better to read?

Her other DD married her best friend, who is Jewish.

Sounds like a mum who is pleased her children have found good partners.

As for why he wouldn’t be, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Atheist, Agnostics, etc etc not all men are lovely.

OP has already explained what’s she’s doing for food. Look through the comments.

Going against the grain here but there’s no way I could host Christmas while excluding a 4 year old in the name of religion. Your DD is being a dickhead and outrageously selfish.

Carry on as normal OP and don’t pander to your DD. Children should not be punished for their parents beliefs and a 4 year old will not understand.

DD1 sounds like an awful bully.

. I thought we could get around this by having our grandchildren who will get gifts come over earlier and receive them but as DD2 isn’t Christian and doesn’t do church that won’t be possible.

Why can't they come over if they don't go to church? Can't they wait in the house if you have to go out for the service?

If you went to someone's house to celebrate eid, would you ask them to change what they normally do?! Would you ask them to save your gift for Christmas?! No you wouldn't because that would be rude. You celebrate Christmas exactly as you should do, it is a religious event. Of course all the children should be given presents! Celebrate it as it should be. You do not celebrate eid so would not gift something for eid. You have to do what is normal for you. It is their choice if they wish to come. I speak from experience, my mother and I are opposite religions. At first I watered down Christmas not wishing to upset her. But I had children and wanted to celebrate it fully. So I told her I'm celebrating it properly and she was welcome to join me. She never came again because she didn't want to partake in Christianity nor accept presents. That is fine. I'm not ruining mine and my children's Christmas just to keep someone else happy. Also it is about Jesus at the end of the day! We have to stop bending to other people's wishes because we fear upsetting them.

You need to do your Christmas as you always have done, they are choosing to come to you for the day, knowing what is in store.

It is down to your DD to prepare her DC for the fact that others will have presents but they won't get any and that it is because of her choice due to their religion, and that granny has been told not to give them anything.

What your DD cannot do, is come and spoil the day for everyone else. I don't understand why she wants to be there at all though given that they don't celebrate Christmas

I don’t understand what going to church, or not, has to do with giving presents to some children earlier, which seemed like a good idea (though surely the children not getting gifts will cotton on, in future years even if not now).

Ask your DD1 what she suggests you do about giving presents to the other children but not hers. Could you perhaps do less expensive presents to them on both Christmas and Eid?

The Santa issue is not your problem - all children of families who don’t do Santa face this issue and it’s up to the parents to decide how they want to explain it.

As far as religion goes, surely you can just avoid overt mentions of Christianity for the few hours your family are there?

Your children are lucky you are so thoughtful but it is up to them to work out how to navigate the difficulties of being part of a non-majority religion.

This sounds incredibly tricky. I have no advice for you as it sounds more like the issues are being caused by your DD1s personality rather than because of her religion 🙈 I guess you have to just take her at her word and not give her children presents as requested and just hope the cousins are willing to share their new toys with them for the day?!

Whatever you end up doing, I hope it all goes well and that you have a lovely Christmas with your whole family 🥰

Awww it's lovely to have such a big family with children all around the same ages! It's hard work but if you can keep Christmas or large get togethers it'll be lovely for the cousins growing up together 💗

DD1 sounds a tad neurotic and controlling, I have many Muslim friends and family and we both buy each other (now the kids really) Xmas and Eid gifts! Jesus is a prophet in the Quran so they should know and respect Jesus/people's beliefs in Jesus. My friends and I see our overarching God's and faith as the same, just different rule following and stories.. I guess my friends and family are much more liberal. There's really no one more conservative and fervent about rules than a convert/revert, I have to say.

I'd just do Christmas as normal, perhaps you can tell DD1 and her family to come over just before lunch and get the others to come earlier mid morning for present opening. It's sad she won't let her children have a present though, as the presents aren't from Father Xmas, they're from you and DH surely? If you say Grace before eating then crack on as normal and they can lead their own prayer after, it sounds a nice mix! It'd be nice if they each brought some cultural food too for the table or snacks in the day, challah bread and Indian sweeties/desserts eg.

Sounds complicated! Maybe something like a Selection box for the children without a present? I had this problem as a child .My bestie was a JW and she wasnt supposed to have a party but she did .Mum was told not to buy her a present though!

My close friend at school wasn’t allowed to celebrate Christmas due to her religion and was upset not to get any cards in year 7 (we tried to be respectful). By year 8 we gave her cards and she stashed the cards in her locker but loved receiving them - (she apologised for not giving us cards). By year 9 we gave her token gifts, a new pen or lip gloss - something she could discretely hide from her family.

As an adult she is Christmas mad - her Facebook pics are fantastic.

Maybe the kids will grow up as Christians. My friend did - she just wasn’t allowed to say it out loud. Sad really.

I really find your DD1 present rule uncomfortable. Her children are going to be upset and I just think it is very unfair of her. I am not really sure how she is thinking it’s ok in any way possible. Either they come for Christmas and do Christmas or they don’t (which you obviously don’t want). I presume on Eid you would accept a gift if part of the custom? Children aren’t looking at this like a religious festival, they are thinking Santa and presents. How do they handle this at school? Have they pulled them out of all Santa activities and carol concerts? Our neighbours are Hindu with kids the same age, they are celebrating Christmas. We get them Christmas presents and they attend our get together. The kids love Santa and even know a couple of carols from school. They said they didn’t want the kids feeling left out. They celebrate all the Hindu festivals too and the kids know they are Hindu. I know Jewish, Sikh and Hindu families who do the same - and I guess as your DD2. I think a common Jewish tradition is a Chinese take away on Christmas Day with pressies and films. It sounds like you have already talked to your DD1 so I don’t know what you can do. It just seems very very hardline. All I would have suggested is texting “hi lovely, you know we are very supportive of your religion so this isn’t about that, but I am still worried about us hosting GC1 when all her cousins open their pressies on Christmas Day. I just really don’t want her feeling left out or less loved. Is there any way round this?” Hope it gets sorted!

Can you not give gifts to your grandchildren before Christmas Day - to be opened at their homes before coming to your house before lunch?
They are all very young and likely won't remember or talk about presents when they see each other.
Failing that just get gifts for all anyway, as PP have said it's YOUR Christian celebration and you are allowed to gift if you wish.
Alternatively you could open bank accounts for each child and put money in them for each one until they turn 18.

Surely if your daughter does not want to celebrate Christmas she shouldn’t attend Christmas Day? Seems very attention seeking to make it all about her wants and very mean to make sure her child is left out. I would personally give the grandchildren their Christmas gifts prior to Christmas to olen at home so no one feels left out and the presents aren’t the main part of the day for you anyway! And then celebrate as you always have and if your daughter doesn’t like she either doesn’t attend or
leaves. I’m sure you wouldn’t be given rules about how she celebrates Eid so why does she get to dictate how you celebrate Christmas ?