To think we should ban the term ‘globalise the intifada’

[Dangeos]

After the terrorist attacks in Manchester and now Bondi, I struggle to see how this term is anything other than a call to violence against Jews. We should be cracking down on it, in the same way we do other hate and violence inciting speech.

No, of course we aren't going to agree that because it isn't correct! Can I ask you to please do some research into what theocracy is?

There are 6 theocracies in the world: Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Yemen, The Vatican, Saudi Arabia.

Thanks for this.

You really have to pinch yourself on here sometimes.

'Theocracy' is a system. Netanyahu can quote all the scripture he likes. He could speak only in scripture. It wouldn't make the Israeli political sytem a theocracy.

‘Genocide’ means an attempt to wipe out an entire ethnic group. In Europe, most recently seen in Nazi Germany, against the Jews.
Israelis are not attempting to wipe out all Palestinians, but responding to a massive terrorist attack in October 2023.

How could you ‘globalise the intifada’ other than by attacking Jews all over the world? What else could that sentence possibly mean?

It's like I said in a post further up. Not everything is binary. Definitions can be interpreted slightly different. The transition point from "0" to "1" varies according to how folk apply the definition.

For example, do I think Isreal is doing genocide ? Nope, I don't think so, but according to the definition, some folk say it is. And TBH, it's not something I would personally argue over. I can agree with both sides on that.

Now, do I think Netanyahu thinks he is guided, or inspired by his God. I do yes.

Theocracy is a system. Who the Prime Minister is is completely irrelevant, whether he thinks he is guided by god, even more so. Basic information is at your finger tips on the internet yet you for some reason you think your opinion overrides it?

As I have said, not everything is binary. And opinion does often play a part. Of course it does. It depends on what weight an individual puts on each factor.

Oh right. I've just messaged my friend who is a Kurdish refugee from Iran. We've decided Iran is a secular democracy so he's packing up to go home. Don't know why we didn't think of it before. I've told him when the authorities come for him to remind them that everything isn't binary. I'm sure they'll understand.

It's not in dispute that Iran is a theocracy.

Nuance plays a part does it not ?

I have already said I don't agree there is a genocide in Gaza. Others say there is, and I can agree with their points. By the UN definition it can be said there is, but we all tend to apply different weight to each factor. The experts don't agree, and that's why it usually takes a court to make a judgement.

I think a good example is Trump. Is he a fascist ? I think he is. Others say no. When I work through the 14 points of fascism re Trump, each point is not a tick the box binary, each point is a sliding scale.

Is this not why people often agree to disagree ?

I give up. You haven't even looked up what theocracy means have you?

There are theocratic elements to Israel, for example ceremonies like marriage are religious rather than civil (although that's not limited to Judaism, obviously, and civil ceremonies undertaken elsewhere are recognised). Would Netanyahu like a full theocracy? Probably, but he's a radical and, hopefully, an outlier PM. Theocracy isn't a great idea.
As an aside, we're having enough unpleasantness from the "we're not far right, we're just right" brigade on this thread. Those of us who aren't indulging in racism and who broadly agree that anti semitism isn't ok can hopefully disagree on the finer points respectfully.

Although I can’t see why your post fits what you’re asking for with the brigade part.

Yes there are elements as I think I referred to above. Just as there are here with an established church and bishops in the Lords. But fundamentally this person doesnt seem to understand that its systemic elements to the structures of governance that make it a theocracy, not the beliefs of the PM.

I have, and I have said I reckon Netanyahu appears to think he is divinely guided. We can expand that to include his cabinet too. He quotes religion to justify his actions.

I am happy to agree to disagree. And note, I am not writing anything to try to change your position, I am trying to explain my thinking.

Go back to 2018, when Netanyahu cheers Isreal to be a Jewish state.

Netanyahu cheers Jewish state law as a 'pivotal moment' in Zionist history | The Times of Israel

Now it's just my opinion, that does not strike me as a very secular thing to do. If you happen to think it's a secular thing to do, then that's your choice. The Knesset vote was 62 for, 55 opposed. So there is a divided opinion right there.

Do you not agree people can have different opinions ? Or does that tick your " give up" box?

George Bush thought he was divinely guided. It didn't make the US a theocracy.

Fair point. But Bush did not try to amend the establishment clause of the US constitution.

Isreal has changed their basic law. And to me that has a lot of weight.

Well fine, let's have a discussion. But the kinds of people who say things like "Jews only care about things when they're personally affected" or draw clear distinctions between "Jews" and "white natives" (sic, unbelievably!) love to see decent people argue among ourselves. Divide and rule is their absolute goal.

Given that you are anti fascist, can you confirm that you are also against some of these following core principles of fascism:

Economic Intervention: state intervention in the economy, syndicalism (worker-management corporations), and nationalising key industries.

Anti-Capitalism : Fascism attacks "rootless" finance capitalism and international bankers, and appeals to workers by blaming them for economic problems.

Collectivism: The concept of a unified, body requiring individuals to serve the collective.

Welfare State: fascism promotes a welfare state with provisions for pensions , state provided central health care system, state provided education system- and no private alternatives.

I have no idea what you are on about. I use the Dr Lawrence Britt 14 points. There are others I recall.

And erm, play the ball not the player.

The welfare state as a marker of fascism 🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's almost not funny.

Characteristics of theocracy

1. Divine sovreignty. The electorate is sovreign on Israel, the defining characteristic of a democracy. In a theoracy opposition to political power therefore becomes an attack on god usually leading to brutal punishments.
2. Clerical rule. Netanyahu may think he's guided by god but lots of religious people do. I'm an atheist so its not my bag but what's the point of god if he doesn't guide a religious person? He is not a rabbi. There is only one rabbi in the current cabinet, there not because he's a rabbi but because he leads a party. The Chief rabbis are not part of the government.
3. Religious only law e.g. sharia in Iran or Aghanistan. Halachic law only governs civil matters such as marriage. civil marriage also exists and non-halachic marriages performed elsewhere are recognised. Which is why Israel has a thriving gay community.
4. No separation of church and state and lack of religious freedom. Israel's unique role as a home for Jews means there is no strict separation of church and state. But then there isn't in the UK either. It does protect religious minorities even if there are some that would like not to. As ever Israel has robust public discourse on all these issues.

Its utterly ridiculous to claim Israel is a theocracy.

With regards to the nation state law etc I wonder if you are confused about Jewish identity and what it means? Jewishness is an ethnicity not a marker of religious observance. Lots of Jews are entirely secular and many are atheists.

Fair enough. I concede. It is not a theocracy per definition.

The Jewish state law of 2018 certainly sticks out though. Because why ? Why do that regression from secular to religious.