To not want SC to move in?

[Phylllis]

This is uncomfortable to write but I’ll put everything down so I don’t drip feed.

I’ve been with DP for 12 years, meeting his SC when they were 2, 4 and 5; they’re now 14, 16 and 17. We have our own kids aged 7 and 5 (their mum also has a 10yo). We’ve always had them every other weekend and half the holidays. Their mum lives 1.5hrs away.

Relations with their mum have always been polite on the surface but difficult underneath. She’s never encouraged SC to apply themselves, to do homework, to stick to any hobbies or to work hard. They’d arrive with nits for months on end and not touch a book between fortnightly visits. I’d hear rumours of her badmouthing me through mutual friends. The children consistently did very badly at school. Nonetheless DP (and the schools, the SEN leads, CAFCASS and social services) never thought it bad enough to move them to us.

I’ve always said the children would always be welcome to move into ours. They’ve never wanted to.

In the past year, they’ve all repeatedly said they’re expecting to move in with us when they’re 18. They have bedrooms here and their mum is apparently planning to downsize and has told them that it’s fair that they live with their dad at that point as she’s had them until 18. The older two are in college, but barely attend, having failed all but 1/2 GCSEs, and the younger is on track for the same. The older two are exceptionally messy. They’re fundamentally nice kids but wilfully uninformed and screen-addicted, and can be entitled and demanding (as I’m sure all teenagers can be).

The thing is, I don’t want to be responsible for housing three lazy adults with zero work ethic indefinitely. Life is expensive and busy, and I don’t think it’s fair that their mum’s unilaterally decided this without discussing it. I’ve raised it to DP and he thinks it’s not ideal but that we have no other option. I don’t want it.

AIBU?

I agree and hadn’t thought about that. It was the pp who mentioned them getting minimum wage jobs at 18 and claiming benefits that riled me 🙈

You and DH need to seriously discuss this with each other and decide on the ground rules and bounaries before they move in. They need to be working or at college. No gaming after a certain time in the evening. Everyone has a job to do or is on a rota to help with everything.

If that isn't kept too, then they go. or you do... he should put his DC first, but he is in an unenviable position with having families of 2 different ages.

It can be hard for kids when there are different rules in each parents house. XH used to complain that DD just helped herself to food out of his fridge, I think it was a yogurt... I said well it's fine in my home, but if you don't want her to do that in your home then you have to tell her that. I think she was around 6 or 7 at the time. They learn. Your DH needs to be consistent and back you up and be the one telling them what to do.

A lot of kids do live at home post 18 though. Even if they get jobs, they can't afford to pay rent for their own place. I don't know of any around here who don't live with their parents.

Apart from anything else, all of mine turned 18 in the upper sixth. So was I supposed to throw them out mid way through A levels?

Why did the relationship end when his kids were so young? This is the long term fall out from that

You and DH need to seriously discuss this with each other and decide on the ground rules and bounaries before they move in. They need to be working or at college. No gaming after a certain time in the evening. Everyone has a job to do or is on a rota to help with everything.

I mean I agree with this in theory, and many others have said the same but the reality is they won't. And who will be trying to enforce it while her DP is out at work / our for evenings and weekends? The answer is the OP, while trying to work and parent her own kids.

If that isn't kept too, then they go.

How would you throw them out though, with no money and no job prospects? Literally onto the streets?

I don't think this has a chance of working sadly, which is why I think OP should say no from the start.

You wouldn’t lose your Entitlement to benefits and child maintenance partway through the year it ends in the June after they turn 18 if that’s them completed their education.

It’s easy to be hard on the woman who’s raised these children by whatever standards.
I don’t believe if they’re going around in dirty clothes to be honest because the school would flag that, In fact, the school would wash the clothes before it was allowed to get to that stage.
But if this woman went into a relationship and produced 3 children on the basis that she was going to get some help to bring them up in this world she’s been dealt a pretty shit card when a long comes the original poster creates two more reducing her child support at that point.
Nobody’s mentioned who the father is of this other kid that’s come along belonging to the three children’s mother.
I would imagine it’s quite overwhelming having four kids knowing that there’s gonna be no Safety net.

People say it because it's true. She did know. I mean God knows there are men enough out there, why have kids with one who has already demonstrated a lack of commitment to the ones he already has??

@the7Vabo quoting you, but also replying to @IAmKerplunk @TealSapphire

My definition of actual children and adult children is not based on who their mother is.

There are currently 5 actual children who need parenting and stability. Neither the mother or the father of the OPs step kids can win any awards for their parenting up to this point. But the OP can't do much about that

The OPs step children will become adults over the next few years and as they become adults they will require support and encouragement to launch into the adult world. Their mother has not prepared them well for that. Their father has been absent due to a combination of apathy and circumstance. The SC are going to have a hard time as they become adults. But I fail to see how continuing to indulge the learnt behaviour of laziness and entitlement will help them. The best thing their father can do (if he's unable/unwilling to get custody of them as actual children) is to support them as adults as I outlined until they find their way. Being a loving parent isn't about coddling your adult child and offering them a home with a live in cook, housekeeper, diplomat and maid service until they want to leave. It's about helping them to get the best out of life that they can. The ambition is to get the adult children to leave the nest and be successful and happy. The future the OP sees if the step kids come to live with her post 18 is not conducive to that.

Yes - send them to uni never to return or put them up in a house share whilst they go about their minimum wage jobs 🙈

Exactly. One of mine has ASD and she needed significant support to launch. She lived at home in the uni breaks (which are long) and couldn’t do a part time job during term time - she did work summers. But she also dicked about and changed her mind about her uni course. And then the same for her masters. Should I have just said she’s lazy and chucked her out?

They could get benefits & minimum wage jobs if both their parents decide that’s all they are willing to do for them.

I think people consistently underestimate how difficult parenting is. Like puppies it’s not just for Christmas. You bang out 5 kids you need to be able to step up & do the very hard work involved in parenting them or go to your grave knowing they have bad lives that is to a large extent your fault.

DH clearly can’t cope with 5 kids and their mother can’t cope with 4.

There won’t be any “ winners” in this situation they are too many people involved with too many needs.

What benefits do you think they would be entitled to exactly if they were a working a minimum wage job for 40 hours a week?

I had a child and I wasn’t entitled to anything.
You’re £400 a week that you pay tax is it. That’s all you get.
Out of which you have to pay rent bills food clothes

Don't do it. They won't launch you could have them with you forever.

I don’t know tbh I’m not in UK so was quoting someone else. They may not be entitled to anything.

My point was is that all the effort the parents are willing to put in? Kick them out into the world and have them just about survive if anything.

Considering how loud, messy and lazy they are, I wouldn’t like this either. Mind you, I feel sorry for the children being kicked out by their own mother!
Would the eldest come first then the middle child a year later and then the 14 year old in four years time?

If they move in and fail to find jobs / go back to college -

Take them to view house shares.

Support them with initial deposit.

Guide them in applying for benefits.

Kindly but firmly remind them that they understood the expectations when they moved in.

Let them know they’ll always have your support, are always welcome for meals, Christmas, birthdays etc but the time has come for them to stand on their own two feet or they will never manage it.

Some 18 year olds can claim help with housing costs if living independently, which can include those working FT.

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/information-for-your-situation/young-people-and-benefits/young-people-with-housing-costs

You having a child and not being entitled to anything isn't relevant. I'm not entitled to UC either, income too high and we're homeowners, but that isn't a reason why a single working adult couldn't be. That's not how it works.

stamp this out now @Phylllis

Tell DH it is not happening and that you need in of the bedrooms as an office or your dc now need a room each. You can’t have adults moving in. Also who is funding these adults? Are they expecting pocket money etc

I would also directly tell the girls next time they visit that you are not moving house. Pester them about their future work plans. Stop being nice

Your DH doesn't sound like someone who was ever really capable of parenting 5 children.

Well, it is relevant when I’m making it crystal clear that I was on minimum wage and I had a child and I wasn’t entitled to universal credits.
Or any assistance with housing costs.
This threshold at which support is unavailable is not very high at all if you don’t have any additional disabilities.

I don’t think people realise how little support there is out there for young people if they don’t have families. From what I’ve seen, especially the boys it’s almost certain they will become homeless
The girls might get more help but inevitably their best bet is to get pregnant, And it’s downhill from there onwards

God, this with bells on. Are they coming for Christmas?

Sounds like you have had the first of a difficult series of chats with your partner but I doubt he is taking you seriously yet. Have you actually told him that you are actively considering separation?

I find it quite odd that if he is a tradesman he is not contemplating offering an apprenticeship and getting at least one of the older two on some sort of track to acquire some skills. The fact that he is not even considering it, tells me quite a lot about just how responsible he feels for their success in life and that it will be left to you to handle the actual parenting. At a minimum he should be insisting they spend the summer holidays on site doing donkey work for him and making themselves useful.

I'd start by doing the bedrooms and a very clear uptick in behavioural standards. Chores, loss of wifi, and endless bickering gives them a bus ticket back home again. Tell them at Christmas that it is changing but also tell them that you have zero interest in housing them unless they significantly pull their socks up.

I would start to have them stay separately too? Rather than all three at once? Yes, that means their mother "never gets a break" but two are near adults. They're all old enough to get themselves to you on public transport.

Nope, it's still irrelevant because UC entitlement varies by area as well as housing tenure. The OP has given you no information at all to ascertain where they live and what the thresholds would be.

This comes up all the time on MN, people who think that because they aren't entitled to any UC they can state that someone in entirely different circumstances also wouldn't be, despite not having enough information to make a calculation. They're wrong. That's not how UC works.

It is correct that the threshold at which support is unavailable is not very high at all if you don't have any disabilities. You still cannot make a blanket claim that these 18 year olds would exceed it, based on the limited information we have.

It's very, very clear that you don't want them to move in and I think it's ok to feel like that. It would be different if they had moved in as children, or even if there had been something nearer a 50/50 arrangement - but that's not the case. They are 3 adults and that is a very different kettle of fish. It will upset the rhythm you have with the children who are still young and seemingly have their lives on a different trajectory to their older siblings.

There could be a small opportunity to change that trajectory for the oldest one - but it's clear nobody is actually going to do the work and support for that.

So basically, it looks like your options are to move them in and try somehow to make it work, or move them in and you leave with the youngest. This is not something that should be falling on your shoulders while their father takes a back seat. Prioritise yourself and the youngest children.

I wouldn't be allowing this and i would be setting them all straight NOW.

The mum doesn't just get to toss them out at 18 and say they will be with you.

An if they do move in... You wont be moving, they will need to get jobs, no food in rooms, they will be sharing rooms, your own kids get a room each, it wont be a life of luxury.

If they dont like it, they can leave. its not a doss house.