DD (21) plans to get married and move abroad

[Thatonesong]

My DD is 21, she's a lovely, sociable, smart girl. She studied sports science and is now doing her MSc in Sports and Exercise Medicine. She entered into a new relationship in January, the man is 28 which to me feels like a notable age gap at 20/21, but I appreciate others may feel differently. He is from the Middle East and has made it clear he plans to move home. He proposed to DD at the start of the month, which felt quite fast since they'd been together for maybe 10/11 months at the time, but we congratulated her, she seems happy and airing our opinion is only likely to cause upset.
Tonight DD came over for dinner, without her partner. She told us she is planning to get married in the summer and then move to his home country with him in the autumn after she graduates. I asked if she has a plan for once she is there career wise and she said maybe some sports coaching but he can afford to support them both. This felt like a red flag to me as I don't want her to be fully reliant on anyone else to just survive. She was also honest and said having children is high on her priority list and she "doesn't want to wait until she's older and too tired to be an active mum". I felt a bit gobsmacked tbh, but just said she should spend some time thinking about if this all what she really wants or if she is doing it because it is what he wants/feels pressured.
Since she left I haven't been able to stop crying, my partner thinks we need to have a harsher word with her, note the risks more plainly, such as difficult getting a divorce, likely not possible to have children there, break up and move back here with them (due to The Hague Convention) etc.
I know she is an adult and entitled to make her own choices, but 21 still feels very young!
AIBU to be so concerned? What do I do?

Why is everybody on here suggesting caution to this lady when talking to her own daughter about her future! I think you need to be a bit harder, show her some videos clips news etc of exactly what it is like to live in a country as a woman with Muslim law. And also the ramifications if you do not toe the line. Should she have any marital problems, or he turned out to be not very nice? She will have absolutely no rights. If that was my daughter, I would not be hanging back and pussyfooting around showing her what she is signing up for.

Send her this. Only 5 years ago and an example of how women are treated by Qatari authorities. These women were not even in Qatar proper- just on an airport stopover and were taken off their flights without explanation and subjected to forced vaginal exams. Can you imagine?

www.hrw.org/news/2020/10/27/women-reportedly-subjected-forced-gynecological-exams-qatar

I didn't suggest caution. But then I parent in a completely different way to MN. I don't leave my adult children to make stupid life ruining decisions. We talk. A lot. And I am brutally frank.
I have no fear of them going NC and I am not afraid of my DC, as so many are.

I can completely understand your concerns but wanted to try and give some comfort and a different perspective ad well, in case it helps.

I am 28, similarly always lived and grew up in the UK. I met my Middle Eastern partner whilst abroad on holiday early last year, and we have been together ever since. We did many months of long distance before deciding to move together to Dubai earlier this year. It’s the best decision I’ve ever made!

dubai, Qatar… the UAE in general is extremely safe for women. The laws, rules and regulations are firm but fair, so long as she abides by them there will be no issues.

My family were also concerned for me - as I’d expected, however can now see that this move has really broadened my horizons and opportunities and I’m so, so happy with my partner and my new life here. It gave me a chance to start again.

The difference with my situation though, is both my partner and I work, so I am not reliant on him. My
partner is from Turkey, so Middle Eastern, but different views compared to locals here. I know the local men here like to provide for their partners, so this is where the concern for your daughter lies, which I fully understand. Control and jealousy is also a common theme.

I’d urge her to only make the move if she feels it’s right for her, and to keep her independence by working and building her own career too. There are some amazing opportunities here in the UAE, especially in sports / coaching and education.. so I don’t think she will struggle to land work - however it is an overly saturated market over here at the moment with so many nationalities making the move over, so it can be hard to secure work at first. I’d recommend looking for employment here whilst being in the UK, make connections etc before moving!

The visas here are also complex, you get visas through your employer ( I think there’s a visa you can obtain through marriage too, but I’m not married so not so clued up on this).

I would also urge her not to consider children outside of marriage in the UAE. While the rules have relaxed slightly (speaking for Dubai as I know rules in different emirates vary) I’d still be cautious. It can be complex trying to register the baby as British etc once born here - as I’ve witnessed with colleagues in a similar situation.

moving away at a young age definitely builds your strength, resilience, character… and opens so many new opportunities - HOWEVER - you need to have your wits about you. Don’t rely on anybody else, make sure she’s making her own money and has enough to get home if things go south.

Im sending you both so much love. X

What a shit situation for you OP. I think you need to spell it out for her, backed up by facts. She will have no rights and be his possession.

Op, there are so many red flags in your post I can understand your worry. He sounds successful and wealthy and she’s probably a bit bowled over but your DD needs to know the implications of what she is getting herself into especially if she has children. A decent man would understand your worries as parents and, if he doesn’t, that will tell you all you need to know.

I have been to Qatar a few times, and found it suffocating. The heat in the summer is unbearable and women have very few rights. There is an air of tension is how I would describe it.

Op, I have a dd exactly the same age as yours, and this is my worst nightmare. You need to remain calm but be much more direct and clear about the risks, which are numerous.

In your place I might encourage her to visit and stay in the next few months, and envisage life there every day indefinitely. Can you go with her? It might be enough to really help her see what she is signing up for. Explain what will be expected of her and how will she will feel being pregnant and with a newborn with no support at all.

If she wants to stay with him, maybe she can agree that they stay in London rather than the ME so she can pursue a career too.

I would be very concerned about his motivations op.

I worked and lived in Qatar. Had my DD16 out there and moved back when she was two because of the restrictions to my life. She is being breathtakingly naive.

Oh my goodness, I would be beside myself too in your situation. I have a DD only a little older.

Is he a Muslim? If so, what if he decides to take another wife, or wives? If he leaves her or vice versa, she will not be able to return home with any children to live. Does she even know these things are possible? I’ve lived in the Middle East and it’s a very different culture. She’s met this guy in tbe UK but hasn’t seen what life is like in his country before making such a major decision.

It’s the possibility of her being cut off from her children on a divorce I’d be most concerned about.

I'd be giving her my hard opinion and I wouldn't pussy foot around it. She's going to ruin her life.

I agree, she has no idea what she is signing up for. I don’t want to make things worse for op by explaining the horror stories of friends of mine, and how their dhs changed once married, but I would be moving heaven and earth to inform my child of the risks, clearly and without emotion. It is a serious and grave decision she is making that may not be possible to reverse.

Sounds like me at that age, the only difference was I was already living in the ME. I was divorced by 25. 😳

Stress to her what will happen if they have children. He can easily travel ban them and if he does a runner with them back to the ME from the UK, there is nothing the UK courts or police can do to help as most Middle Eastern countries are not members of The Hague Convention.

Most likely he will expect her to convert or become stricter after marriage. I was warned by Muslim female friends but stupidly didn’t listen. Out of 5 friends who married Arabs in the ME ( mostly British woman but also European), all have separated or divorced. One has her child travel banned.

Many see European woman as second class citizens and use us for the visas.

I am sorry that happened to you. It can be traumatic.

I still have a friend there, she has been trapped in a violent marriage for nearly twenty years. He wouldn’t allow her to leave with her DD’s, and so she is stuck. They are nearly adults now, and I pray she will soon be able to leave. She has been through hell. He started out as the most charming, polished ‘westernised’ man but completely changed after they were married. He wouldnt let her work after marriage, and controls every aspect of their lives, whilst going out most evenings himself and having multiple relationships with other women.

My friends life has been utterly ruined, and at this point I am just glad she is alive (we have had our moments when I didn’t think she would make it) he didn’t even allow her to come home for her father’s funeral. I really wouldn’t wish this on anyone.

Just seen he’s from Qatar. Probably not using her for a visa but it’s very strict there. Learning from my own mistakes and experience in the Gulf, I would be urging any dd of mine not to marry a man from there.

Oh gosh I’m so sorry, I’d be losing my mind. The early marriage and plans for a baby aren’t something I’d want for my kids, but she’s an adult and maybe that’s right for her.

But moving to Qatar to be supported by a man and be with his entire family in a very different culture? That’s really, really hard in any country. Much more so in Qatar for all the reasons already mentioned. Does she know all the rules? Has she met his parents? Being a wife there if very different to being a tourist for a few days.

I keep thinking about the movie Not Without My Daughter - very m old now and surely overly dramatic but still relevant. Her happiness will be 100% based on how her husband and family choose to treat her - she’ll have no autonomy over her own life. I’d be absolutely horrified.

Has your dd considered what would happen if one of her children were gay? Has she had these kind of conservations with her husband to be?

You know that Qatar isn’t part of the UAE, right?

Sorry - just wanted to also add that should she have a baby and be employed, most employers in GCC / around here will give 3-4 weeks of maternity leave before expecting mothers back at work. There is a huge ‘nanny’ culture - newborns are often handed over to nanny’s who essentially care and raise the child in the mother’s absence - which I’ve always found really sad.

Just another thing for her to be aware of - as unlike the UK, maternity leave is not a right.

@Ohnonotthisagain2025 nails it.This is the only way forward. Hoping between now and the summer she changes her mind.

I understand why you’re so worried, I’d be the same. I wouldn’t want my daughter giving up her independence and being completely dependent on their partner for everything and then moving to the next city, let alone another country.

You and your partner need to have a plan. Visit as often as you can/facetime/talk just always make her feel you’re just there.

Yes I was meant to write in the UAE and surrounding areas / GCC. The rules vary hugely between emirates and the GCC countries.

So sorry to hear about your friend, it really is awful. I know someone who was strangled by her husband UAE and the police just laughed.

Thankfully my XH was never violent but I’ve heard of it happening so often. That sounds about right with them forcing their religion onto the western wife while shagging around. It used to be rife!

I spent a lot of my childhood in the Middle East. My parents did warn me against doing this. It could be fine or it might not be. If they split up, she won't have the rights that she has here. It is easy to take rights for granted until you live somewhere where you don't have them. Their children will have Qatari citizenship, so there will be absolutely no official help available from the UK end, if things go wrong.

I'd go along with the comments saying to air your opinion and tell her how it is.
Our dd was in a similar situation, though not the Far East. By showing our serious "concerns" it gave her the opportunity to blame our "disapproval" (!!) for scuppering the plan. Underneath, although in love, she had been looking for an excuse to get out, and we were happy to be the bad guys for many months after.

Marital rape isn't outlawed in Qatar... I couldn't live in a country like that. I think your daughter needs to know the worst parts and then keep Comms open if she does move so she isn't isolated.

Ooof my sibling is in KSA.
I wouldnt like this either... it's very difficult

I'd push for a longer engagement- beg if necessary....
and also to differ children until 25 at least.

If her head turned by the money and the lifestyle?
??

She's going to be in a BAD spot if he turns out to be a bad egg and there are children involved (she may gets custody while they are young but wont have parental rights or be able to freely make decisions as westerners understand it. The husband will still make key decisions and "owns" the kids.)

but try telling that to a 21 yo who is in love....

She needs to really look at worst case scenarios (marital rape, travel restrictions)
there are “male-guardianship” laws and practices in Qatar that give husbands (or other male guardians) power to limit women’s travel or movement 😵‍💫
In practice this means even if she has/can get a passport, in practice a man can block his wife’s ability to exit the country.

she aware of this?

Btw one of the only positives I can think of is sporting events like f1 tennis football are freely available and cost very little due to sportswashing.