To do a present-free Christmas for my daughter?

[JoannaTheYodelingCowgirl]

My youngest child, D7 (Id say DD but the way im feeling right now theres nothing dear about her), she has given me nothing but hell the past couple of years.

She had fallen in with a bad crowd of lads and been excluded from school several times for fighting, swearing, refusing to follow instructions, vandalising another childs property... Ive come down like a ton of bricks with her but D just doesnt see the serious side of it at all

After talks with the school in the summer it was obvious that D shouldnt be returning in september, now shes receiving alternative provision that involves tutoring at home while on the camhs waiting list

Shes no longer seeing those nasty old friends, and i thought things would finally calm down but if anything they got worse. Shes been so angry and spiteful, hitting me, attacking her older sisters, refusing to do her work. She had a tantrum yesterday that resulted in her grabbing hold of some of my christmas ornaments from the hearth throwing them and breaking them. I absolutely lost it with her, but its like screaming at a brick. No remorse, nothing. D has been given consequence after consequence but nothing seems to be working she just doesnt care, and ive just about had enough.

So once the kids were in bed i was in tears with DH i just didnt know what to do with her anymore. but he suggested she needed a shock to the system, so we agreed shes not going to get anything for christmas this year.

Mums coming over this weekend with presents but i rang her and explained the situation on the phone and i asked her to keep hold of D's presents for being naughty. But mum told me i was being unfair, and that it would not stop her misbehaving but only make things worse.

Ive spent an absolute fortune on D7 alone (nerf gun, football boots, lego cars and star wars) but it makes me feel sick the thought of giving her these things when shes been completely diabolical, she has no respect for my things why should i treat her to things she wants on christmas morning. Ive kept the receipts for everything of course so its not too late to take them back to the shops. My mum bless her is a softie with the kids but her voice is echoing over and over that it'll only make things worse but i just don't know what to do.

WIBU to give my daughter no christmas presents as a wakeup call?

Hi OP i suspect your daughter may be autistic. It might have also been why she was easily influenced by boys/children who have been affected by toxic masculinity.

Agree with your mum - what is driving this behaviour? What has happened to her ?

No, you can't do this to a 7 year old.
You need professional help, desperately. I've worked with children and families for years. The way you describe your daughter is so far from normal for a 7 year old. There has to be something really serious going on here for her behaviour to be so extreme.

Unfortunately, this is what went through my mind.

When I was 7, I was a tomboy. (I'm also ND.) I thought that I was 'part of the gang'. I wasn't - I was being groomed.

Most of the boys were about the same age as me, but one was older, high school age - 13, maybe - and he groomed me for his mate. Fortunately for me, there was only one incident and I wasn't actually raped but it left me with significant issues. (One of my friends was supposedly the gang leaders girlfriend, Lord help us. She was a year older than me.)

It was only years later that I realised how odd it was that a high school boy (Scotland) had attached himself to a group of primary school children. He was a neighbour's child and Mum had once got him to take me to a matinee at the local cinema. I knew to beware of strange man. I didn't know to beware of all boys.

I'm hoping that nothing like that has happened in this case, but the reference to the rough boys is worrying me.

shes not a teenage girl?

Do not give her a nerf gun.

Does she have the concentration to make Lego? That's something to hold on to. Football will use up energy & give discipline. Does she have friends? Must be hard schooling on her own.

And yes, really hard for you & husband & her sisters. Just keep going.

Yes, the OP's language would indicate that she's a teenager, but she's only 7.
The "falling in with a bad crowd of lads" must have happened when she was 5/6.
She then got suspensions for aggression, vandalism and swearing.
Which is very, very concerning at such a young age.

Presumably, the daughter met these boys at her primary school.

Neither was I. I was 7.

ETA As I tried to explain, our 'gang' consisted of boys about my age - all at the same primary. They were relatively harmless. The 13 yr old who latched onto us was not and proclaimed himself 'gang leader'.

I think you need to change tact. Stop with all the punishments, the shouting and consequences for a few months at least.

It's difficult when she may be nd (I am as is dp and DD)also when you have a kid that can be aggressive and violent to others (db was). Reward all good behaviour, if you do this I'll take you for an ice cream etc etc, it'll take some time but see if it works.

It sounds like she's in a rut of being told she's naughty so she is naughty. To have no reaction when your parent is screaming at you at age 7 is not normal so she's either desensitised to it or needs real help for her mental health.

I genuinely thought you’d forgot to put the 1 in front of the 7.. but she is actually 7? What the actual?

So if the child has been abused in some way or bullied at school etc, Santa comes along to scold her too - that's horrible.

But you have put a label on her, you’ve just labelled her a naughty kid. That’s way worse than any diagnosed “label”.

Your 7 year old little girl sounds like she has a plethora of additional needs that are not being met by either you as parents or the school.

It’s time someone stepped up for her, not punish her with no Christmas.

I’d say they are all removed BUT she can earn them back one at a time with good behaviour. One gift for a period of not doing x y or z.

I meant more " you've been amazing today, well done", " I'm proud of you for how you handled that etc" too

That would be utterly cruel and she will never forgive you.
You will damage your relationship with her forever.
Listen to your mother - she's talking sense.

Do you only have girls?
Did you and DH want a boy but got her instead?
This sometimes results in a girl being treated like a boy when very young and then being a tomboy.

Children also act out when they have been abused or bullied so I would investigate this more with her school. My own sister was sexually assaulted at age 7 by a neighbour's son then aged only 11 or 12 and her behaviour in school deteriorated completely and she was very aggressive towards her siblings.

If she is on the spectrum, she will need specialized help with her communication skills.

Where were your parents?

She's 7. Don't talk daft. Get her some help. (Seems you had a rethink on Christmas, glad to hear that).

If she likes running around you could try junior parkrun or the actual parkrun - a free way to burn off energy for her and any of the rest of the family.

I'm glad you've had a rethink on Christmas. At the end of the day this is a young child, excessively harsh punishments will stay with her forever.

Can I suggest this book “calm parents, happy kids” by dr Laura markham. I listened to it on audible when we were struggling with our 8 year old DS. It helped me change how we were dealing with the tantrums understand why things were happening and spiralling out of control.

It might be time to try something new.

Ok, read the thread now. Not genuine. Reported.

Absolutely no way in hell should you do this. She’s 7! At 17 maybe, but at 7 it will scar her for life.

Shes obviously hurting in some way, and it’s your job as a parent to help her, not be cruel.

She could be ND, something could have happened that she’s covering up, there are so many possibilities, but it won’t be that she’s simply “bad” and requires you to be cruel to her.

By all means tailor the presents as some have suggested to things that will use up energy - a football and goal for the garden maybe?

I may have missed this but is there a sport she really loves or has shown a real interest in? That might be good. Could be something like martial arts or boxing even. Swimming is meant to be very good for ADHD if she turns out to have that.

She’s too big for Santa at 7??

Im a TA in Year 2/3 (so same age as your daughter) and my whole day is spent talking about Santa and elves and reading Christmas stories.

What I would do in your situation is to put a couple of the presents in a stocking from ‘Santa’ along with coal and satsumas and a few less exciting bits like socks and books because she’s on the ‘naughty list’ this year.
The other children will get the same in their stockings but chocolate and sweets instead.

I’d sit her down tomorrow and tell her you are appalled at her behaviour, she currently has 15 presents for Christmas from you and Daddy but each day she misbehaves before Christmas one of these presents will be going to charity to a well behaved child who won’t be getting very much.

Stick to this and if she does misbehave every day leading up to Christmas she will still have her stocking so it’s not like she has nothing but she will see what her bad behaviour has done. If she manages a few good days then she will still have a few presents but won’t be getting spoilt when she doesn’t deserve it.

After Christmas take DD with you to some form of shelter, hospital, charity shop and donate the rest of her presents with her, emphasise that these children have very little but make the most of their situation and do not behave so badly, tell her this is going to happen every year until she starts to behave.

Guarantee this isn’t genuine.