To do a present-free Christmas for my daughter?

[JoannaTheYodelingCowgirl]

My youngest child, D7 (Id say DD but the way im feeling right now theres nothing dear about her), she has given me nothing but hell the past couple of years.

She had fallen in with a bad crowd of lads and been excluded from school several times for fighting, swearing, refusing to follow instructions, vandalising another childs property... Ive come down like a ton of bricks with her but D just doesnt see the serious side of it at all

After talks with the school in the summer it was obvious that D shouldnt be returning in september, now shes receiving alternative provision that involves tutoring at home while on the camhs waiting list

Shes no longer seeing those nasty old friends, and i thought things would finally calm down but if anything they got worse. Shes been so angry and spiteful, hitting me, attacking her older sisters, refusing to do her work. She had a tantrum yesterday that resulted in her grabbing hold of some of my christmas ornaments from the hearth throwing them and breaking them. I absolutely lost it with her, but its like screaming at a brick. No remorse, nothing. D has been given consequence after consequence but nothing seems to be working she just doesnt care, and ive just about had enough.

So once the kids were in bed i was in tears with DH i just didnt know what to do with her anymore. but he suggested she needed a shock to the system, so we agreed shes not going to get anything for christmas this year.

Mums coming over this weekend with presents but i rang her and explained the situation on the phone and i asked her to keep hold of D's presents for being naughty. But mum told me i was being unfair, and that it would not stop her misbehaving but only make things worse.

Ive spent an absolute fortune on D7 alone (nerf gun, football boots, lego cars and star wars) but it makes me feel sick the thought of giving her these things when shes been completely diabolical, she has no respect for my things why should i treat her to things she wants on christmas morning. Ive kept the receipts for everything of course so its not too late to take them back to the shops. My mum bless her is a softie with the kids but her voice is echoing over and over that it'll only make things worse but i just don't know what to do.

WIBU to give my daughter no christmas presents as a wakeup call?

I think rugby is more mixed at the younger ages, maybe she could try that?

I honestly think the no present plan would have blown up in your face. Can you imagine spending Christmas day giving out presents to her siblings with her not getting any and you having to deal with the kick back all day?

Totally agree with this btw. It’s not all pretty ponies, girly girls brushing manes and plaiting tails. It’s very physical work, and lessons can build listening skills, concentration, communication etc

From the small amount of exposure I’ve had to that world through a family member having their own horse, the girls and boys who go riding seem like a lovely lot. I always thought if my (currently small) DD shows an interest in riding, I’ll have to go with it (begrudgingly) because I think it has such a lot of benefits.

Yes, when mine were 7, they never hung out with any kind of "crowd" so it sounds very much as if things have gone very wrong from a very early age.
The "rough and tumble tom boy" label is being used a lot.
I'm wondering what else is happening in the home.

I was thinking she was Year 7?

snorts I was a proper tomboy growing up (nothing has changed 😂) and horse riding was transformational for me. Believe me, nothing pretty or princessy about clambering onto a 15 hander, squeezing down your fear and taking some jumps. You get down in the dirt, plenty of lads ride too so she’d have people she’d play with (again, I was the same as a kid), but you also learn discipline, empathy and how to care for something. If she is ND, she’ll bond quicker with animals than humans and you have to respect a horse because if you piss about, you’ll end up with a bloody painful nip, boot or, god forbid, over its head and on your arse.

Don’t dismiss it out of hand as ‘not for my tomboy daughter’. The stables are full of rough and tumble types but likely a better influence on your daughter

At age 7 this behaviour is on you!
This is not the right punishment and something she will ever forget or forgive.

Echoing PPs to say please ensure you are having her assessed for ADHD and Autism
Ask for GP referral via right to choose pathway as CAMHS route can take up to 5 years in some areas I've read.
It is worth knowing that as soon as a learning need which includes neuro divergence is expected then the school must make adjustments and accommodations. You do not need to wait for a diagnosis. You should also take into consideration that many experts say ND kids present as a third behind their non ND peers in terms of emotional skills and maturity. I would contact the National autistic society and get booked on to one of their free 6 week online parenting courses. We found it really helpful- our DD7 has an ADHD diagnosis since we did it and we are still waiting on Autism assessment. It is so hard and exhausting parenting a child with challenging behaviors. But they do need love and understanding, as well as predictable routine and firm boundaries. Look at joining some online groups too on Facebook or whatever for parents of neurodivergent children. There's a good one for Autistic girls called Autistic girls network. You will find support, sympathy and solidarity as well as suggestions for things to try to improve the situation at home. Good luck OP- I really feel for you.

I have never said anything about DD being out on the streets

Does she have a phone or any electronics? I can't imagine she has a phone at 7, but who knows? If so, take them away from her. Turn off the wifi. Everyone will suffer but it may be worth it.

Nothing is easy with kids and I’m sure you’re doing your best with things. But as an outsider just getting a snapshot of things, there seems to be a lot of focus on discipline and punishment. It doesn’t sound like your DD is being ‘naughty’ but rather there is something else going on re possible neurodiversity or mental health. If any of these apply, then you are effectively punishing her for who she is. I f she’s screaming it’s likely because she’s finding it hard to process certain emotions and you need to find ways to help with that. As others have said, you need to read up on different parenting techniques so you can best support your DD. She’s not behaving like this to annoy you or make life at difficult, it’s more she likely doesn’t know how else to be. Good luck.

It's a proven and very effective therapy method for boys as well - it requires them to be calm, focused + emotionally regulated, and can be quite transformative. Don't write it off as 'girly'

Im not dismissing it I think its a lovely idea, but its not DD's kind of thing. I know a lot of nd girls are closer to animals than other humans but DD is not the empathetic sort of all, animals are of no interest to her. I can suggest it to her in case she surprises me though.
Tbh i think she'd get far more enjoyment out of something where her body is running and active, i think thats why she loves football, i think shed love rugby as well. Might like martial arts too.

She does get very calm and focused when shes building her lego cars or star wars spaceships so i might also look into stem things like computer sciences or other crafts?

What did the school say when you had the meetings?
What did they report and identify?

I do think something like this is the way to go for the time being. All the positive things, being a member of a team, running around etc and a child that comes home knackered and happy will be much easier to live with too I should imagine.

At 7 girls can play in boys football teams, so it might be worth exploring that.

Martial Arts is good, because they teach the proper way to do things AND as well as dishing it out, you also have to take it. After a few kicks to the chest it helps you understand just how much power you can and cannot take.

You might want to check out different schools though... look for ones that will teach and reward respect to others rather than glorify fighting and sparring.

What do you mean "look into computer sciences"?

I meant like the little it/coding classes they do for kids at libraries.

Sorry! Its been a long day my brain is tired 😴

Then you contact the local grassroots teams and that's where she trains. My dd plays in both the 'boys' team and the girls team as the boys team was there long before the girls training was set up so that's where she played and is a first team player for.

Ill def look into that, thanks

Yabvu.. use Christmas and the holidays to build on strengthening your relationship and showing her love and care. Surely she still believes in the magic of Christmas and Santa ?

Shes 7 so shes too big for santa, anyway weve never done the santa thing in our house (when they were little Ive told them to be respectful of the kids their age who did believe in santa obviously ),

kids grew up knowing the presents were from us

There must be something going on that’s causing this. Not getting any one on time with you or her Dad? Jealous of other siblings? Family problems?
The single most important thing right now is connection and communication.

Has she seen a child-psychologist
Have you got a padded cell so you can give her a time out LOL
whatever you do please BE CONSISTENT!