To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

[Pukkajones]

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

If you think it was silly but harmless behaviour, why not just say this to your employer. Why lie?

You didn't see anything right? Happened to look away and only saw the aftermath of her being led away. I doubt she was doing it for sexual gratification somehow, the embarrasment is probably punishment enough.

Oh don't be ridiculous. Ignoring the social context in which we live, where one of the leading causes of death for women is men, but the reverse is not true, is specious and misogynist. None of that means that the flashee doesn't have every right to make a complaint, nor that Jenny shouldn't be held responsible, but there is a social double standard that affects how threatening the flashing behaviour was, however much I wish it were otherwise.

Wowwwwww

@Wishitsnows

Aren't you more or less saying that you think it's okay/acceptable for males to be sexually assaulted and harassed? Why on earth do you feel that way?

And if a woman had been grabbed by her crotch she would "get over it" as well?

Indeed. It was a ‘Oh Pukka helped take drunkard to her room, maybe she saw something ‘ but she didn’t as it happens so that’ all… was she drunk? Yes she was. And so was everyone else.

😱😱😱😱

Seeing a woman’s bra is totally not the same thing as a man flashing his dick at you!!!! Women don’t rape men with their bras and bras actual cover up breasts, which are not even genitalia. I would just say I didn’t see anything.

Really?

Would you say that about a woman being assaulted? No, you wouldn't and its not right the other way round.

Doesnt matter how 'nice' she is normally, her actions were out of order.

The woman showed her bra. Surely this is more comparible to a man showing everyone his vest.
Op didn’t see more than this.
If she actually saw her colleague grope someone she should have reported that because it is an offence, but public displays of underwear are not.

No, because men assaulting women is completely different. Men are threatening, women are not.

I'd be more concerned about the welfare of the woman, I bet she's mortified that she got so drunk.

The company did not force her to drink and assault someone. She is 100% responsible for her actions.

This is true. I personally agree with some PPs that flashing your bra is not the same as flashing your boobs - it could (depending on the bra) be the same coverage as a bikini. Still inappropriate but not the same level IMO (unless we think everyone on the beach is flashing?) The groping is much more serious, but that's outside your scope as a witness.

Times like this I regret working in the NHS.
Our Christmas party will be a stale mince pie, a luke warm cup of tea and everyone will have vacated the building by 5 (pm not am)!! 🤣

its 40 years for me and I completely agree with you.

Eugh.....in a professional environment? I cannot ever imagine being a manager and encouraging my staff to drink

Then you have never worked in a company that has free bars. That is precisely what happens. I worked somewhere where people would order a tray of shots or bottles of champagne everytime they went to the bar. There was no limit.

It isn't here or there anyway. People are still responsible for their own behaviour.

Many years ago, I worked in a corporate company and as above, people were very very drunk. A young male employee was dancing with an older female manager. They were both very very drunk. People said the woman had been very flirty with a few of the younger guys and one of them started to 'fondle' her on the dance floor. The following Monday morning, he was given a warning for his behaviour.

Just say what you saw OP, not what you heard, or thought, just what you saw.

Sorry this is really fucking weird. I didn't realise sexual assault had a sliding scale of fear before it counted. I guess men can't be victims of domestic abuse either.

you are not "witnessing against" You are being asked to say factually what you saw.

@Pukkajones - I hope that the colleagues who witnessed this woman groping the man DO say what they saw - what she did is a sexual assault. It is as bad as a drunken man grabbing a woman’s breasts or crotch, in my opinion.

At the very least, this colleague needs to know how badly she behaved, in the hopes that it might stop her from getting so drunk another time. If she faces sanctions at work because of what she did, she has brought it on herself.

Women have no more right to grope men than men do women. But from the sounds of it, the groping was hearsay, so whilst absolutely not ok, OP can't say she saw it. She wasn't there. As for the flashing, it also depends on the context and power dynamics at play. My DH's female boss (MD) tried to kiss him at a Christmas do years ago. She was very drunk and it was a clear one off as she was otherwise always professional towards him. It did make him feel very uncomfortable though, so I'm not going to minimise the behaviour, but it was a one off and ultimately we felt it was best to ignore it that one time. If OP's colleague was a senior member of staff flashing her bra at a male colleague as a power move, I'd say it's predatory. But that's not the case here. In my opinion, what my DH experienced, for example, was much more serious than a seemingly random flashing by a very drunk junior member of the team.

‘Eugh.....in a professional environment? I cannot ever imagine being a manager and encouraging my staff to drink’

par for the course in my company and industry. In fact our alcohol in the office policy says we’re aren’t supposed to be inebriated in the office but that’s it… entertaining clients, lunches, dinners is standard, big conferences and events are commonplace, as is getting together 500 + colleagues at a time, staying in a hotel, having meetings, dinners, a formal dinner

It’s the same crime! Whether a man does it or a woman. You might consider it stupid but the person who was on the end of your colleagues drunken behaviour is obviously upset or bothered by it

Nothing. I saw nothing.

If it was a male sexually assaulting females I am sure you wouldn’t hesitate.