To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

[Pukkajones]

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

Er, okay. Given how drunk everyone was I think I’ll be ok.

This. She clearly should have controlled her intake but stable door/horse. If it had been a drunken man OP who groped you and/or bared all what would you say/want to happen?

Well done OP @Pukkajones mumsnetters tend to be "whiter than white" on here. Everyone in my experience has got a bit too drunk at a works party and she clearly was totally smashed. We had it happen at one works party where they gave too many free drinks and hired a comedian who egged everyone on. So many fights, people going home with each other, someone picked up the MD, people swinging from the beams it was wild. And they changed the Christmas party set up after so it never happened again. I've seen worse behaviour on works trips. Pretty sure your colleague will be mortified and I'm sure there was no malice in her actions. Everyone makes mistakes.

How would you feel if the male colleague had grabbed her breasts or crotch and exposed himself? If she did what you said and you witnessed it and have been asked to give your side that’s what you should do, just like you would if it had been the other way around.

Sounds like you’d really love that

Err, yes? I’ve already said that.

THIS. I had this exact situation with a colleague - groped two male members of staff and management attempted to brush it away. As a woman who has suffered assault in the past this made me feel very unsafe. Colleagues and I reported her and she had a warning. Gone in six months for doing the same thing again.

Sexual assault is assault and shouldn’t be minimised. You only need to state the facts, the judgement is for others.

You have to tell the truth and let others decide what happens. What if you stay quiet and she does something like that next year? There will be no record that this is a pattern of behaviour. As pp have said, no one poured the drinks down her. She needs to take responsibility for her own actions.

So you lied and helped cover up sexual assault. If I were in your shoes I would be incredibly ashamed of myself. I'm guessing you're the type to sleep soundly though.

She didn't just get a bit carried away, she got paralytically drunk and sexually assaulted people.

I once worked at an office where one woman regularly and consistently sexually harassed male colleagues. Constant boasting of sexual adventures, touching and groping all totally unwelcome and uninvited.

Even men deserve to work in an environment where they don't have to put up with this unwanted sexual 'banter', it's assumed that because they are men they probably don't mind it, and might even enjoy it, and too bad for them if they hate it and feel dirty and uncomfortable.

Go to the meeting and just answer the questions they ask, and let them decide what measures they are going to take.

Remind me of a work do about 10 years ago, I was pregnant so not drinking. And the head of finance. Called the COO a gNGEr cnt and punched him. Lights out. Goodnight Vienna. As the ONLY sober person in the only one HR would take an account from. Wild times. Both were fired but the COO for incompetence rather than fighting!

She sexually assaulted someone and then flashed someone else. You really think it's snitching to tell the truth? In which case i hope nobody ever does it to you. The company didn't get her drunk, she did that herself. It's pathetic to be unable to handle your drink to that extent.

When i was sexually harassed at work, some weak minded people like you also stood by and wouldn't say what they'd witnessed. That led to him keeping his job with barely any consequences, while i got to develop mental health problems as a result.

Everyone who is saying 'What if the genders were reversed'. The genders aren't reversed so it doesn't matter, men and woman are held to different standards and the dynamic is completely different when it comes from a young female member of staff, doesn't mean it's right but both can be true.

How does the older male college feel?
How was everyone else behaving? Was everyone else drunk?
You're only being pulled into meetings about it because they knew you were sober?

If you have to attend a meeting about it, I would keep it brief and factual. Annoying for you because you haven't done anything wrong.

as long as you're ok with the male colleagues flashing their penises at women with no sanction, have at it.

But you are hugely unreasonable not to give a factual statement about what happened.

It wasn't a man. Men flashing cocks are predatory pervs, women flashing bras are not.

I feel this will need to be repeated everything someone shrieks 'if it was a man!'

She didn't see the groping incident, so would have been lying if she said she had. Hearsay is not evidence.

I don't think that the sight of a bit of Marks and Spencer's lace and midriff is comparable to a hypothetical erect penis.

She has confirmed that the employee was very drunk and needed to be helped out, however. Which she did see and was involved in.

Exactly. Prime example of double standards.

If your managers have asked for an account from you @Pukkajones, then not complying with their request may cause them to question your judgement. Saying "I didn't see anything" when you were clearly present and saw something would make them wonder why you were being dishonest on that score and saying that you DID see something but weren't prepared to comply with their request might prompt questions on your motivation and/or judgement.

It's perfectly possible to provide a basic statement of fact as to what you, yourself actually witnessed without veering into "snitch" territory. You could also caveat your account of Jenny's behaviour by simple statements such as "many other colleagues behaved badly that night; it wasn't just Jenny." and "Colleagues generally were being encouraged to drink to excess; not just Jenny. I'm hopeful that this will be a learning experience for future corporate events."

It may be that, as you've alluded to in other posts, other things (in which Jenny may or may not have been involved) took place less obviously at the hotel, which the company is now having to account/compensate for, and are looking for any witness statements. Your account may be, in fact, what gets Jenny off the hook. If something untoward DID take place off the dancefloor and others are blaming Jenny because of the state she was in, it may be that your evidence exonerates Jenny by proving that she was too p~ssed to have been involved, or that it transpired at the time you and other colleagues were getting her back to her room.

Sorry you're having to deal with this. But I don't think you have done the right thing by not offering the full account of what you witnessed.

Males flashing penises are predators pervs. Women flashing bras are not.

Glad you brushed the jobsworths investigation aside op. Maybe have a quiet word with the young women and suggest she calms it on works dos although presumably she knows that now.

Really, the closest comparison would be a man flashing his bare chest.

Its absolutely appalling behaviour from this colleague. She has sexually assaulted another person. Yes you should say say what you saw. She should be sacked.

OP has had the meeting and point blank lied. I feel so sorry for the male colleague. I just hope there's someone else who can act as a witness, otherwise there's a risk that it's all turned against him and he's blamed for making false accusations. And if there's ever any other incident of sexual assault, the victim will probably be very hesitant to speak up.

Christ, the world is a depressing enough place already and yet some people seem set on making it worse.

No words, how can you dismiss it and be so pathetic as to say ‘I can’t be bothered with this shite’.

People love a bit of drama don’t they?? As I said I saw ( or did I?) some silly but harmless behaviour. So I won’t be joining any witch hunts. Nor have a commented on anything that happened that night on Slack or anywhere else. It now seems - from messages
I have seen - that the ‘victim’ of the bra flashing didn’t actually say anything or report it … it’s all someone said and someone said and eventually some mine in HR or similar heard something.
which would make sense now, me being asked what I remember.

Well exactly. How gross