To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

[Pukkajones]

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

I would be honest and say what you saw.

However the testicle groping part - which it seems like you didn't witness - is probably the worst thing and I would have thought enough for her to get sacked anyway so if you really just dont want to get involved with the process (which i find more understandable than some of the minimising on here) you could say you'd just turned your head when she flashed him and didn't really see anything other than anyone's reactions....but to be honest that's still a risk for you which I wouldn't want to take personally.

it's a bit off to be blaming the company for serving alcohol/encouraging drinking. Nobody forced her to drink to excess and, even if other people didn't behave perfectly theres a difference between slightly embarrassing drunken behaviour and sexual assault!

If it was a man doing that he'd be sacked.

And also if a woman did that to my DH for example I'd be fuming.

She shouldn't be excused as just being drunk. I'm sure we've all been incredibly drunk before and managed not to sexually assault someone or expose ourselves.

I didn’t say it was right.

I’d bet an awful lot of money on this man not feeling frightened, threatened or intimidated and would have no issue with saying nothing. In fact I would wonder if his official complaint was a strategic move.

Yup. I have no time for this shite. Also, now I think about it perhaps I did finally crack and have a couple of drinks making my memory fuzzy and affecting my observation skills on the night.

I'd be factual about what you saw i wouldnt get drawn in to what others saw or what stories you've heard 3rd hand.

MN hypocrisy at its best! If a man did this the reaction would have been very different, you wouldn't expect a woman to 'get over it'.

Echoing pp. A nice quiet man gets very drunk, touchy feely with women and grabs a woman's crotch / vulva and then comes back and flashes his penis at another woman before he's dragged off upstairs. It's okay because he's usually quiet and it's not like him?

The man obviously felt a certain type of way otherwise he wouldn’t have reported it!!
Just because some women are easily intimidated by men that doesn’t mean that all men get ignored with claims of sexual harassment or indecent exposure.

I agree fully with your first point. It's not the same.

But there is still a very hard line in this sort of situation between what is and isn't acceptable.

This goes way beyond crossing that line.

@Gloriia are you for real? She groped a man’s testicles!! He likely has a wife and children, that could cause all sorts of problems for him. Not to mention the fact he was sexually assaulted which can be psychologically very damaging. You don’t know that man’s history, he could have a history of sexual abuse or exploitation for example. The woman is a sex offender whether it’s funny to you or not. Appalling attitude.

Why do I need to be involved???

Fucking grow up.

You know what you witnessed. A sexual assault.

Do the decent thing and tell management what you witnessed.

If a court of law called you as a witness would you willingly turn a blind eye?

So you lied.....

Having done sexual harassment training recently, my understanding is that the person on the receiving end, and a person witnessing an incident get to decide if it's harassment or not.

So the guy who alledgedly got groped can decide that he's not bothered and it's not harassment. And the guy who got flashed can decide that it is harassment. That's their prerogetive.

A person witnessing these events can also decide whether it's harassment. So, a person who witnessed the groping can say it's harrassment for them because they don't want to be subjected to acts like that at a work event (even if those doing it were consenting). Similarly, OP can decide that (for her part) the flashing was not harassment, but that obviously doesn't detract at all from the fact that the other person did.

The question of whether OP has to co-operate with the investigation of her co-worker is completely separate to how she feels about the incident. If the company's request to co-operate is reasonable, doesn't open her up to fear of retaliation, bullying, whistlblowing or stress, then she may have to do it or she could be disciplined herself.

Would you be so ignorant if the usually quiet girl had her crotch groped or was upset a male had flashed her? You’d also let that slide?

Maybe he’s testing The Equality Act in terms of harassment, and seeing if it applies to all?

The company didn’t open her mouth and pour drinks down her neck did they? That was all down to her. Shes a grown adult and needs to take responsibility for her behavior

Keep it factual. If I had an example I’d mention that alcohol was actively encouraged. No point risking your own job.

It wasn’t a man though- yes I think there is a difference.
Also, I don’t consider flashing a bra to be the crime of the century. If a bloke had turned round a mooned his boxers I wouldn’t consider that anything other than a bit stupid either. As it goes.

I don’t like the way you describe your HR having an actual problem because there was a punch up as if this isn’t a problem at all.

If the role was reversed or if it was your partner who was groped would you feel the same? Because she’s a woman and is generally nice is the bar for acceptable behaviour lower than it would be for a man grabbing his female colleagues arse?

Your attitude is terrible, saying you haven’t got time for it? Now you’ve lied it might get still get you in hot water if others say they saw her groping someone and flashing her boobs and they all say go ask Pukkajones, they witnessed everything and were much closer to everything!

What’s done is done but I feel sorry for your male colleague who was groped and whose colleague is so dismissive of it

I don't think this kind of behaviour is acceptable from a man or from a woman. Being drunk is no excuse, and wouldn't be in a court of law.

I don't understand why you lied. Either you think what she did wasn't very bad...in which case, why not just tell it as it is? Or you think it was really bad, so why would you try to cover it up?

If a male worker grabbed a woman's private parts and exposed his own private parts at an office party, he would quite rightly be held accountable for this. I don't see why women shouldn't be held to the same standard.

If people aren't able to control themselves when they're drunk, then they should avoid drinking.

The OP had better hope that no one witnessed her observing her colleague’s behaviour. Surely lying about this incident would be a sackable offence?

If you had witnessed the groping then I definitely think you should have told them the facts, but bra flashing is not so serious, nothing like a man flashing his penis.

Someone played our boss's head like a bongo at one party and nothing happened to him - reckon our boss felt it was his own fault for giving us so much booze.

OP, I really hope that you never find yourself in a position where you are relying on the kindness and decency of strangers for anything more than telling you the time.

I completely get why you’re apprehensive. I would hate to get someone I like in trouble but what she did was not ok. If were to hold men to a standard the same must be done for women. If a male colleague you vaguely like brushed their hand against a woman’s crotch I think you’d have no issue in reporting what you’ve seen.

Drama llama.