To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

[Pukkajones]

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

I agree with your stance OP - yanbu.
A lot of drama on this thread.
The facts are: there is a third hand rumour/gossip that she groped a bloke - OP cannot verify that, or not - as she was not there. Nobody has even complained about that.
She lifted her top and flashed her bra - this has been complained about BUT not by the bloke she flashed at, by someone else. Flashing a bra is a non-event imo.
OP I would do exactly the same as you and stay right out of the xmas party drunken drama.

Classic mumsnet double standards thread. If a male colleague had flashed at a female colleague there would be uproar. If a male colleague fondled a female colleagues vulva he would be out the door and the police would be involved.

You should tell the investigation what you saw and then they can take action.

Alcohol is not an excuse for sexual assault, not ever if the male was wearing nice trousers so effectively asking for it.

If all you saw was her flashing her bra, then that’s all you can say anyway. Not really that bad. 🤷‍♀️. You’d see that on a beach.

Avoid repeating anything you’ve heard.

Alcohol fuelled office do’s are always dodgy, behaviour wise. 🙄

Surely people would have known that op was at the scene if the flashing incident, so would know she was lying?

Exactly

Totally agree.

Tell them. If it was the other way around there would be uproar.

Another one playing sexual assault down just because it wasn’t done by a man. No, because she didn’t want to say the woman got her tits out and grabbed a man’s testicles.

It's a real shame for her - but it is what it is, it definitely happened......& if it was a bloke grabbing lady parts & flashing, there would be absolute hell to pay.
I don't imagine anyone was forcing her to drink to the point of losing all inhibitions?
Most of us have done things we regret whilst under the influence - but that's not an excuse.
I would have to say what I'd seen if I was formally asked to.

It isn't a shame for her, it is shameful of her.

So a man drunkenly flashing his pants at the office do would also be a non event in your opinion?

With the chorus here- if she’d been a big drunk male running around flashing and groping, what would happen?

She shouldn't be saying anything about the grabbing of testicles as that's not something she saw, only something she heard about. She's not in a position to comment on it. However she's quite prepared to lie about the flashing incident, which she did see

You haven't misremembered. You lied.

Would your memory be this unreliable if a male colleague had groped a woman and flashed his budgie smugglers at them?

But you didn't say you saw this even though you've minimalised it?

Oh god I had something similar recently. I was specifically requested to provide a statement. In my case the lady in question was a bit touchy feely with me and I repeatedly stepped back and made my discomfort known. I made an excuse to leave the area rapidly. It was clear from conversations with others the same evening that she was being inappropriate with multiple people. I had to give a statement and I did say that I had no desire to make a personal complaint or take the matter further. , I even acknowledged that I was probably being a bit hypocritical as i may have been more inclined to if the perpetrator was male (I do work in a heavily male dominated industry). I said I was providing the statement after a direct request from my manager. She was subsequently fired but it transpired that she was propositioning clients during work hours as well as numerous other things and think she might be an alcoholic so the free booze was all a bit much for her. I think if it is a one off and there are no other concerns about her behaviour then she’d probably get a warning and not fired. Our company the senior managers make sure that one of them is not drinking and is a sort of designated person to keep an eye out and try to help these situations. One poor lady was with her for a coupon of hours trying to suggest she went and got so sleep and bar weee told not to serve her. I do think if the company is having a free bar then they have some level of responsibility if it is misused. I also think there may have been some changes to sexual harassment guidelines recently where they have to be more proactive which may be why you e been asked for a statement.

She sexually assaulted this man and needs to held to account. Would the same blasé attitude be taken if the tables were turned and it was man who groped a woman’s breasts or her vulva. I think not.

My husband had to have an uncomfortable chat with a female member of staff following a drunken office party (he was sober) where she thought it would be a good idea to go around feeling men’s arses and their balls including his (he was also her boss). He asked her how she would feel if it was a man behaving in this way touching her breasts etc. Her reply was it’s unacceptable and he should be sacked. You can’t sexually harass/assault women and get away with it.His response was why shouldn’t I sack you then. Men are entitled to the same protection. She had no answer. In the end she was given a formal written warning.

You keep making odd comparisons - throwing up in a bin and consensual shagging have absolutely nothing to do with unwanted groping/flashing.

Using the word victim makes it clear that it's unwanted, which I guess is why you're objecting to it.

Your whole basis for minimising this is that the victims are men. I bet if you were in a situation where your female boss/employee/colleague flashed you and grabbed you by the pussy, you wouldn't be happy.

Someone was clearly upset by Jenny's actions, enough to complain. You and OP are happy lying to cover things up. If it's really no big deal, why the need to lie?

I think that person might be you. I’m puzzled as to why you posted.

This thread reads like a textbook for the excuses given when a man is arrested for rape/assault but is then let off or given a ridiculously reduced sentence.

1. the man was drunk and so couldn't possibly be responsible for his own actions.

2. the man is an upstanding member of the community and so shouldn't be judged by this one event.

3. this is the first time the man has ever done this and so he should be given a second chance.

4. the man is now very sorry and regrets his actions, so there's no point punishing him harshly.

5. the woman was wearing indecent clothing/flirting/asking for it so really shouldn't be upset and shouldn't complain.

I fully acknowledge that groping someone at a Christmas party is not the same as rape, but the excuses are very similar. When society is happy to use and accept those excuses in one situation, the same excuses can and will be used in other situations as well.

Yes, a bloke flashing his pants at the Xmas party is a non-event. I would think the guy is a drunken idiot, but I wouldn't consider it reportable to HR.
I also wouldn't grass him up to management.

A lairy drunk female is in no way comparable to a male drunk groping women.

Absolute garbage, even on MN, the home of hypocrisy"! She was groping, can you not read or are you saying that testicles are less important than breasts and/of fannies? There are many many women who trot off down to HR if a man even makes a complimentary comment about her appearance and she has 'stress', 'anxiety' even PTSD because of his verbal assault!

But if an office guy grabbed a woman’s vagina I’m sure you wouldn’t think twice

I mean, I’d probably feel the same way - but I wouldn’t blame other women for feeling differently and being upset by it. For e.g. somebody with a background of child or adult sexual abuse, of either sex, it could be a lot less of a non-event.