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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

667 replies

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

OP posts:
GoodQueenWenceslaus · 09/12/2025 23:43

If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour

No-one has forced this woman to drink. If she didn't have the sense to regulate her intake to the extent that it caused her to commit sexual assaults, she needs to suck up the consequences. Talk of "snitching" sounds very childish.

GoodQueenWenceslaus · 09/12/2025 23:46

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:49

Lifted her top up and flashed her bra basically. That’s the only thing I witnessed. The dance floor colleague apparently has not said anything, it’s the one she flashed that’s complained.

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So why aren't you willing to give a statement saying this?

VikaOlson · 09/12/2025 23:51

I wouldn't have seen anything.

GoodQueenWenceslaus · 09/12/2025 23:54

Cornflakegirl7 · 09/12/2025 15:12

But women are easily intimidated (with good reason!) by males who are historically dangerous to women.

It's not the same.

Unless you felt it would leave your job in jeopardy, I wouldn't say anything OP.I'd just tell them you do not want to be involved.

And before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am careful at work dos and haven't ever got drunk or done anything at all wrong at them.

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So does it only matter if the victim felt intimidated? I can think of a number of men who would feel distinctly intimidated by a woman grabbing their testicles. Are they not entitled to legal protection against that sort of conduct?

OP telling her employers that she doesn't want to be involved would not be acceptable, given that this was a work function.

GoodQueenWenceslaus · 09/12/2025 23:59

Daygloboo · 09/12/2025 15:40

Who cares. They cant make her if she sticks to her guns. I think its a stupid fuss. A woman goosing someone and flashing her boobs isnt the same as a man getting his cock out and sticking his hand between a womans legs. Maybe she should get a quiet talking to but thats it. They shouldnt provide drink if everyone ends up shagging and stripping off. Its the company trying to cover its ass.

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A woman grabbing a man's testicles is exactly the same as a man groping a woman. It's ridiculous and very hypocritical to claim anything else.i

GoodQueenWenceslaus · 10/12/2025 00:04

LaurieFairyCake · 09/12/2025 15:52

I would as all you have to say is she flashed her bra. And since bras are not harassment, in fact people often wear just that and only that on the red carpet then there’s nothing she can be strung up for.

As long as you’re not asked about other events this is a NON ISSUE and frankly I wonder why a woman showing a BRA is being investigated by HR? When you say there were loads of dodgy events that night.

Presumably HR are investigating her course of conduct over the whole evening including the testicle grabbing incident. OP is just saying that the only thing she saw was the bra incident.

GoodQueenWenceslaus · 10/12/2025 00:05

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:19

Yup. I have no time for this shite. Also, now I think about it perhaps I did finally crack and have a couple of drinks making my memory fuzzy and affecting my observation skills on the night.

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So you've condoned sexual assault. No doubt you feel proud of yourself.

GoodQueenWenceslaus · 10/12/2025 00:09

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 17:20

Nope. Didn’t see anything and have moved on.

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The trouble is that is not what you have said upthread. You specifically said you were present when this woman flashed her boobs at colleagues.

Balloonhearts · 10/12/2025 00:17

I'd do neither. Neither confirm nor deny. Just repeat 'Sorry but I don't want to get involved.'

HRTQueen · 10/12/2025 00:30

MrsHamlet · 09/12/2025 20:12

Flashing is sexual harassment.

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Flashing is indecent exposure- showing your genitals

lifting up your top to show your bra is not indecent exposure

op you saw her lift up her top and she was drunk thats all you need to say

tava63 · 10/12/2025 00:45

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

YANBU Have read your updates. Years ago I had to keep up with employee dismissal case law. The number of Christmas party drink related incidents that were reported was seriously considerable. IMHO the Company are fully responsible here for setting the scene for these types of incidents to happen. And if they aren’t going to fess up to their role I wouldn’t join in any witch hunt!

Franpie · 10/12/2025 01:09

Ohnobackagain · 09/12/2025 15:44

@Pukkajones by saying factually what you saw you may be corroborating her story. The person she flashed might have exaggerated for all you know. As you say, with regard to the assault on the other person, you’ve heard a rumour but in this case you’ve seen her lift her top and show her bra.

This is a really good point. By saying that she was extremely drunk, didn’t know what she was doing, was flashing herself to anyone within eyeshot and so not specifically targeting anyone etc, you could be helping her case.

You don’t know what the person who reported it has said, he could be making out it was an awful lot worse than it was.

Thatsalineallright · 10/12/2025 01:31

lizzyBennet08 · 09/12/2025 22:28

I wouldn't if it was totally and utterly out of character for her . ( nor would I for a male colleague in same circumstances)
she could lose her job with no reference two weeks before Xmas , assuming that it was a one off I couldn't be involved in someone potentially losing their job over that.

How do you know it's actually out of character? How well do any of us know our colleagues really? The charming smile in the coffee break room could easily be the face of an abuser at home behind closed doors.

I don't see why it's complicated. People should just tell the truth of what they have seen.

Catladywithoutacat · 10/12/2025 01:32

Fact is it will be different if it was a man, however men have assaulted women for years and tend to not have such an emotional impact on being touched like that. If the man has said he has had a breakdown on her touching him then grass her up if not leave it.

I was touched up by a man at a bar on Sunday cause he was talking to me, did I do anything no. He was touching my ass, I got over it because I just did.

im sure jenny feels complete shame at her behaviour and will probably leave

this is purely my opinion.

Catladywithoutacat · 10/12/2025 01:36

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:19

Yup. I have no time for this shite. Also, now I think about it perhaps I did finally crack and have a couple of drinks making my memory fuzzy and affecting my observation skills on the night.

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Personally I think you did the right thing
I get others opinions though I hope this jenny learns and stops drinking she clearly cannot control herself

StayceGerste · 10/12/2025 02:09

Honestly, this sounds like one of those classic “company gets everyone absolutely hammered, then acts shocked when someone behaves like… someone who’s been absolutely hammered” situations. If they’re serious about dealing with it, there are plenty of people who saw bits of what happened — they don’t need to drag in someone who didn’t even drink and is now basically being treated as the “official sober witness”.
And yeah, what she did wasn’t okay, but it also sounds like she was totally out of her mind and needed looking after, not hung out to dry. The flashing incident wasn’t directed at you, so why should you be the one giving statements? The guy she flashed at can speak for himself if he wants to.
If you genuinely don’t want to be involved, I’d just say you were focused on getting her upstairs safely and can’t give a reliable blow-by-blow. They’ll still have loads of accounts from other people. Honestly the whole thing sounds like a management problem of their own making.

Cailleachnamara · 10/12/2025 02:59

I think you did the right thing as it was hardly the crime of the century. Can't get over all the holier than thous that would relish seeing this woman disciplined or sacked for flashing her bra ffs. Many decades ago ago I was copiously sick into a waste paper bin at my office based Christmas party. I was totally mortified and never got that plastered again. I suspect this woman has learned a similar lesson.

MrsHamlet · 10/12/2025 06:47

HRTQueen · 10/12/2025 00:30

Flashing is indecent exposure- showing your genitals

lifting up your top to show your bra is not indecent exposure

op you saw her lift up her top and she was drunk thats all you need to say

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It's sexual harassment under the equality act 2010.

Climbingrosexx · 10/12/2025 06:52

pastaandpesto · 09/12/2025 20:30

I'm really shocked at the amount of minimising on this thread about the impact of female-on-male sexual harassment/assault.

The physical difference between a man and a woman is one element of the power dynamic between a victim and perpetrator. In scenarios that involve a man physically threatening or overpowering a woman, it's clearly a hugely bloody important one, and one that will significantly impact the experience of the victim in terms of their ability to remove themselves from a situation, their risk of physical harm, and their level of fear and distress.

But in a workplace setting the physical power imbalance is much less relevant. A man could easily be in a relatively vulnerable position due to seniority, social networks, (invisible) disability, history of CSA or domestic violence etc etc.

It is absolutely outrageous to police the degree of distress and upset that a man feel relative to a woman in the context of workplace harassment, which is what is being discussed here.

Edited

Yet you should see the other thread where basically someone has been talking to someone on a dating site and apparently he randomly sent her a dick pick. As a result she has thrown a grenade into his marriage by sending a postcard to what she believes is his home.

My point? Women on that thread are going off their heads about this man. According to some this pic was sexual harassment and is a gateway to physical sexual assualt. Dick pick today, rapist tomorrow. He deserves to be shamed his marriage fall part etc etc. I get it's serious but it's a pic and women are losing their minds. Now I see this thread and apparently a man having his bits grabbed isn't such a big deal to some and op should turn a blind eye. I cannot believe the hypocricy.

I hope anyone who is assualted fights back, and as a wife and mother of a son I really hope more women are named and shamed and prosecuted for this. The woman who did this and those who think it's acceptable or turn a blind eye are not doing the rest of us any favours at all.

OP - good luck if you ever need a witness at work or anywhere for that matter. I bet the "I don't want to get involved" mob won't be so popular with you then.

Thatsalineallright · 10/12/2025 07:09

Cailleachnamara · 10/12/2025 02:59

I think you did the right thing as it was hardly the crime of the century. Can't get over all the holier than thous that would relish seeing this woman disciplined or sacked for flashing her bra ffs. Many decades ago ago I was copiously sick into a waste paper bin at my office based Christmas party. I was totally mortified and never got that plastered again. I suspect this woman has learned a similar lesson.

The waste paper bin does not have feelings or the right to not be touched.

It really isn't about this woman, it's about the men who were groped and flashed. They should be able to go to a Christmas party without worrying that they'll be sexually harassed or assaulted or made the topic of office gossip.

It doesn't have to be the crime of the century for it to be investigated. It could well be that the accusation going round is that Jenny flashed her boobs, in which case OP would have been doing her a favour by honestly stating that no she was wearing a bra.

Or could be that this is just the tip of the iceberg and Jenny has form for this sort of thing, in which case she should absolutely be pulled up on it.

It's a common pattern: one person finally dares to make an accusation, it's taken seriously, and then lots of other victims come forwards with similar stories.

Pricelessadvice · 10/12/2025 07:17

It does seem that women can behave however they want and people will look the other way. Men, on the other hand…

NotFBI · 10/12/2025 07:48

Oh my ladies. I can't wait to tag some of you on future threads of women/men who were harrased or flashed pr grabbed so you can tell them it ain't a crime of a century and they might be exaggerating anyway so just let it go, poor soul must be ashamed.
Or on threads where their husband's/wifes were in these situations.

Original poster
Pukkajones · 10/12/2025 07:49

GoodQueenWenceslaus · 10/12/2025 00:09

The trouble is that is not what you have said upthread. You specifically said you were present when this woman flashed her boobs at colleagues.

Edited
Show quote history

Well, obvs I have misremembered… memories are notoriously unreliable at times…

OP posts:
Cailleachnamara · 10/12/2025 08:03

Thatsalineallright · 10/12/2025 07:09

The waste paper bin does not have feelings or the right to not be touched.

It really isn't about this woman, it's about the men who were groped and flashed. They should be able to go to a Christmas party without worrying that they'll be sexually harassed or assaulted or made the topic of office gossip.

It doesn't have to be the crime of the century for it to be investigated. It could well be that the accusation going round is that Jenny flashed her boobs, in which case OP would have been doing her a favour by honestly stating that no she was wearing a bra.

Or could be that this is just the tip of the iceberg and Jenny has form for this sort of thing, in which case she should absolutely be pulled up on it.

It's a common pattern: one person finally dares to make an accusation, it's taken seriously, and then lots of other victims come forwards with similar stories.

Show quote history

"Victims" - of seeing a bra ffs! I can't think of any men who'd actually find this anything but funny, especially in a Christmas party setting where everyone else was also well oiled. If you think any of this is shocking I feel you must have led a very sheltered life. I can't think of a single office party when something similar didn't happen. Usually it was (often married) people caught shagging in cupboards or the loos and even the lift.

As for the alleged groping, the OP heard that 3rd hand as pure rumour and as the alleged "victim" hasn't complained, either it just didn't happen or he considered it a total non event.

Not everything in life needs to be turned into a bloody drama. This company obviously has a culture of wild boozy parties. The attendees have probably witnessed a lot worse and just quite rightly moved on after ribbing the culprit for a while.

Greggsit · 10/12/2025 08:20

tava63 · 10/12/2025 00:45

YANBU Have read your updates. Years ago I had to keep up with employee dismissal case law. The number of Christmas party drink related incidents that were reported was seriously considerable. IMHO the Company are fully responsible here for setting the scene for these types of incidents to happen. And if they aren’t going to fess up to their role I wouldn’t join in any witch hunt!

Show quote history

The company are fully responsible

Really, fully? She doesn't have any responsibility for her own actions. So anyone can do what they want as long as someone else pays for the drink? You're ridiculous.