To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

[Pukkajones]

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

Of course there is a difference.
I doubt the flashed colleague felt sexually threatened.
If a colleague exposed himself to me I would fear that his next move would be to assault me, if a colleague flashed DH he would find her ridiculous / have a laugh / enjoy the show / be disgusted - one of these, but for sure he wouldn’t worry about his safety.

Well sorry thst happened to you but not sure of the relevance here? You suffered sexual buse. This was not that.

Males are predatory, drunkern women are not.

Victims are still victims though.

"there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour", no, it goes way beyond that and she should be pulled up on it.

And having all that alcohol available at a corporate event means the company is responsible for your actions and no personal responsibility is needed? Aye, right.

I voted YABU because you stated in your original post that she had 'flashed her boobs' but in reality she hadn't.

Of course it's not OK to do that in a professional environment but as you said, everyone was encouraged to drink and a bra is pretty much a bikini top so hardly shocking.

If you'd seen the ball grabbing and lied about that then you'd definitely be unreasonable. That's straight up sexual assault.

OP this thread is very identifiable if anyone in the company is on MN. I really can't imagine in the culture you describe, that drunk colleague would get into much trouble for flashing her bra, which is all you saw. But you have now posted here that you have lied at work, which I would be worried about in your shoes.

Are drunken male gropers also predatory, or just drunk?

This. Goodness if the positions were reversed you’d spring forwards to help a female friend, wouldn’t you! My DH was groped in this way at a dinner party and found it really unpleasant, and embarrassing. Sexual assault is sexual assault.

Women can absolutely be predatory. Yes, more men commit sexual assault than women, but that doesn't mean that no woman does.

That’s terrible but a completely different topic- child abuse. And those crimes committed against you were by men, not women. The argument isn’t about victims being male, it’s about perpetrators being male.

The company had a duty of care to Jenny as well as her colleagues who were assaulted.

The entire situation was reasonably foreseeable.

When I worked for a well known employer in my country they needed to change the alcohol policy so that if work drinks were to be consumed on or off the premises then an executive level employee must be present to supervise and that person must not consume any alcohol and that person had a duty of care. This is because my colleagues were sneaking off and having sex in the designated carers room (which was a closed office with a futon in it in case we had to bring in sick children).

I would answer this:

”I was concerned at the limitless open bar and that there was no duty of care - specifically there was no designated supervisor for the event who was not drinking. I saw many of my colleagues behaving inappropriately yet noone of any authority stepping forward to ensure that my colleagues were safe. But I did not see Jenny do anything that you have described.”

Someone in a position of authority should have intervened a lot sooner.

It really was foreseeable.

I am aware of an event where a Principal solicitor sat on the lap of a Prosecutor after consuming far too much alcohol. That was messy. Many members of the Court were present.

Do you know what happened? Nothing. Because no one snitched or escalated and it was known to occur at every event where there was alcohol served in abundance. I once hooked up with a guy who was a colleague of my bosses husband (at a work event) Everyone at work found out. No one cared because nothing would ever compare to what the Principal solicitor did and I was told that my behaviour was insignificant.

I’ve been at other law firms drinks and there was a two drink limit (served by someone with a responsible service of alcohol certification), outside catering provided plenty of food and there was a very clear start and finish time. When the event finished we were all told to leave. That was 15 years ago.

How do you know that something wasn’t put in her drink? Why didn’t someone call an ambulance so she could receive an IV bag in hospital and be monitored for alcohol toxicity??

Your employer failed in its duty of care to Jenny and every single person she assaulted that night.

Really, you'd fear his next move would be to assault you? Well 'Jenny' actually did assault someone by grabbing his penis. But somehow imagined assault by a man is worse than actual assault by a woman?

Sometimes I think the stupid 'red pill' guys have a point when they talk about how men are opressed etc. If a man isn't allowed to complain about a random colleague grabbing his testicles just because she's a "lovely woman" and was drunk, we live in a very crazy world.

I see your updates. I am not sure if the man complained himself or others took it forward but if he was leading the complaint then I think your involvement has been to the detriment of the truth which is unfortunate.
I do think the whole place has a toxic culture and social events are probably best avoided as much as possible and like you did, being sober is a must! Good luck

get a grip. And ‘drunken old slapper’?…telling misogyny.

I'm sorry, but the company is not responsible for how much she drank, which obviously was a huge amount. People need to take some responsibility for their own actions.

Just answer the questions truthfully. I imagine if your colleague had been male you would have been more than happy to snitch.

No you get a grip! and preferably not of some unsuspecting blokes balls. Abuse is abuse and if you cannot see that you are the one with the problem. This womans behaviour was sickening

I hope that if you ever end up in a situation where a male colleague has assaulted you or made you feel incredibly uncomfortable, that all your colleagues, who you are hoping will support you, also turn their back on you and ‘see nothing’

Why did you post for advice, considering you had no intention to take the action other than what ended up doing.

I expect she wanted people to tell her that lying is fine, which a lot of posters have done.

Pretty confident that grabbing someone's testicles IS intimidating and alarming considering how... Weak... The area is....

It's what happens on a chat forum, folk canvas opinions. The vote is pretty evenly split.

Next time a drunken male gropes you or your daughter/ sister / mum / friend make sure you remember this statement!
Absolutely flaming ridiculous.

@Pukkajones , yes of course you should say what you witnessed, a few years ago I was the only one that witnessed inappropriate behaviour, and while it wasn't as bad as your female colleague it was still unwanted sexual attention, I did not hesitate at all to come forward .
No matter their sex no body should be subject to unwanted sexual harassment.

Maybe time to modify the company culture to less boozy (even if you can't influence the whole industry).

Is there a chance her drinks were spiked or she was drinking more than she thought she was? It should be easy for people to check eg. the strength of the wine they're drinking.

Is there bullying of people who are drinking non-alcoholic? Are there decent alcohol free alternatives?

There's talking to junior colleagues about reputation/ professionalism even in the context of lots of alcohol being around and reminding people about public health messages ie. 14 units per week, some alcohol free days.

The above are easier things to address. Beyond that you're into things like making sure there's a round of bar snacks / crisps etc served (to help reduce the speed the alcohol is absorbed). Or bigger things like serving alcohol with dinner but having a cash bar afterwards.

That may not be stuff you can directly influence.

I think you did the right thing op. A lairy drunk female is in no way comparable to a male drunk groping women. The power dynamic is completely different. She was letting her hair down and probably regretted everything in the morning. Not a sackable offence imo and you were right to stay out of it.