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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

667 replies

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

OP posts:
herbalteabag · 09/12/2025 18:18

LateLifeReturnee · 09/12/2025 18:10

Whatever industry you work in, I'm glad I don't. That work party sounds like my first ever one in 1980s Northern Ireland. Women getting "mildly" sexually assulted and putting up with it. Poor shy office clerk cornered by the secretary old enough to be his mother and his mortification just a big joke. I didn't think they existed anymore. I hoped they didn't.

Yes, I have memories of parties like this 30 years ago or so. Lots of this type of behaviour, by both males and females. Everyone blind drunk.

Thatsalineallright · 09/12/2025 18:19

Betterbeanon · 09/12/2025 17:49

Whilst I agree that both sexes are capable of sexual assault, I do feel people try to make it too equal. It is actually different if a woman does it. A man has a penis and that is legally considered the "weapon", which is why it is 'assault by penetration' from a criminal perspective. Flashing their penis causes alarm and fear, which is taken seriously.

Too many people jump on the bandwagon when they hear a woman doing it and make a bigger meal out of it. These are usually the same women that go more balistic at a story of a false rape allegation than they do an actual rape. In fact, they pick holes in the genuine rape story.

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These are usually the same women that go more balistic at a story of a false rape allegation than they do an actual rape. In fact, they pick holes in the genuine rape story
Do you have any evidence for the above?

Personally I think everyone had the right not to have their private parts groped. As soon as one person gets away with using "I was drunk" as an excuse, then the attitude spreads.

But if you and the OP are right about it being no big deal, then why bother lying about it? The very fact that this is something to be covered up and lied about shows that it's not ok.

TheIceBear · 09/12/2025 18:19

Gosh this is a tough one. It’s not a good idea having a “free bar “ and “encouraging “ staff to drink. That said she did sexually assault somebody and if a man did something like that it would not go down well, drunk or not.

godmum56 · 09/12/2025 18:22

iSage · 09/12/2025 18:17

Could you not tell them that you are a friend of Jenny's and, as such, you are not an impartial witness - there is a conflict of interest?

that sounds worse! It sounds like "I saw something so bad that I need to defend my friend"....either that or you'd be prepared to lie for her. Neither is a good look in the workplace.

Betterbeanon · 09/12/2025 18:22

Thatsalineallright · 09/12/2025 18:19

These are usually the same women that go more balistic at a story of a false rape allegation than they do an actual rape. In fact, they pick holes in the genuine rape story
Do you have any evidence for the above?

Personally I think everyone had the right not to have their private parts groped. As soon as one person gets away with using "I was drunk" as an excuse, then the attitude spreads.

But if you and the OP are right about it being no big deal, then why bother lying about it? The very fact that this is something to be covered up and lied about shows that it's not ok.

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I never said it was no big deal.

I said that a woman flashing her breasts in different than a man flashing his penis.

Men can rape and that is completely irresponsible of society to equate the two when they are different.

WeNeedToTalkAboutIT · 09/12/2025 18:23

I think it will reflect very poorly on you at work if you refuse to give a statement. The language you are using is absolutely loaded. You're not being asked to "be a snitch," you're being asked to give a factual representation of the incident.

Original poster
Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 18:23

Markham66 · 09/12/2025 17:56

your employer will expect you to attend a meeting and recount what you witnessed. I cannot see any reasonable explanation as to why you would not do this.

No, they don’t.

OP posts:
Original poster
Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 18:23

WeNeedToTalkAboutIT · 09/12/2025 18:23

I think it will reflect very poorly on you at work if you refuse to give a statement. The language you are using is absolutely loaded. You're not being asked to "be a snitch," you're being asked to give a factual representation of the incident.

I saw nothing, just a lot of tipsy people. The end.

OP posts:
godmum56 · 09/12/2025 18:24

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 18:23

No, they don’t.

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I don't understand your comment? Do you mean that your employers don't expect you to tell the truth?

BillieWiper · 09/12/2025 18:25

Can you just say she seemed pretty drunk but you don't remember seeing her doing anything specific. You can have amnesia regarding the boob flash. You can always just say you were looking at your phone. Even if someone said you were nearby.

I guess if she flashed her knob and she was a bloke I'd feel different. But if you know she's not a perv and is a really nice person and good worker I'm not surprised you'd rather not contribute to her professional demise.

godmum56 · 09/12/2025 18:25

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 18:23

I saw nothing, just a lot of tipsy people. The end.

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so again i ask, you didn't see her flash her bra and you didn't intervene. Are you now saying you lied to us?

Lairymary · 09/12/2025 18:25

If you are just confirming what you saw (which sounds like the "lesser" of the bad behaviour), it's not really going out of your way to snitch.

pastaandpesto · 09/12/2025 18:26

dynamiccactus · 09/12/2025 17:44

Yes they really could.

There's also a requirement for employers to prevent sexual harassment and there's a stronger obligation in the current Employment Rights Bill which may be in force in time for next Christmas.

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Exactly. Is it likely? Probably not. But is it possible? Absolutely yes, and there is relevant case law.

The Worker Protection Act 2023 preventative duty means employers must take reasonable steps to protect their staff from being sexually harassed at work. And the law is now very clear that work events like Christmas parties are an extension of the workplace, and so this duty applies in full. In fact, case law suggests that this can even apply to unofficial "after parties" following an official work event.

Encouraging staff to get shitfaced at the company's expense has the potential to be interpreted as a failure in an employer's preventative duty. Many employers either do not understand this, or are happy to take the risk, which of course is a legitimate choice. But an increasing number of employers have changed historic practices such as paid bars etc for exactly this reason.

Shitstix · 09/12/2025 18:27

I get it OP. At a recent off site I went to bed thankful it wouldn't be me waking up in the morning with a roaring hangover and some wtf moments.

Climbingrosexx · 09/12/2025 18:29

totalrocket · 09/12/2025 18:08

No I don’t

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So if you have a son do you not think/ or think parents should teach their sons not to let anyone touch them in an appropriate way? If so at what age does that go out of the window? Do they reach 16 say and you tell them its ok any drunken old slapper can grab your bits now, its fine youre only a man at the end of the day and she is no threat to you. Let her carry on and don't bother calling it out because no one will care? Seriously, this world is screwed

iSage · 09/12/2025 18:29

godmum56 · 09/12/2025 18:22

that sounds worse! It sounds like "I saw something so bad that I need to defend my friend"....either that or you'd be prepared to lie for her. Neither is a good look in the workplace.

Edited
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What the OP saw was bad - there's no getting round it. I don't think recusing yourself from a situation you can't be impartial about is going to be seen as a bad thing. It shows integrity and self-awareness.

totalrocket · 09/12/2025 18:29

InveterateWineDrinker · 09/12/2025 18:14

Jesus Christ on a stick.

I am a man who, as a 9-13 year old choirboy in one of the UK's allegedly most prestigious prep schools was routinely groped by the choirmaster and the priest. I was there on a scholarship and it was made quite clear I'd lose my place in the school if I said anything.

It is extremely offensive to me and many, many others when it is casually suggested that sexual violence against males is somehow less worthy of censure, simply because the victim is a male. It beggars belief that anyone thinks it, never mind says it out loud.

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i am very sorry that happened to you.

All child abuse regardless of sex is horrific.

We were talking about drunken inappropriate touch / or sexual harassment. I still think a female being groped by a man is worse than a woman groping a man.

OriginalUsername2 · 09/12/2025 18:29

godmum56 · 09/12/2025 18:25

so again i ask, you didn't see her flash her bra and you didn't intervene. Are you now saying you lied to us?

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She’s saying it with a wink wink nudge nudge. Yes she saw but she’s saying officially she never saw.

Muffsies · 09/12/2025 18:33

Shitstix · 09/12/2025 18:27

I get it OP. At a recent off site I went to bed thankful it wouldn't be me waking up in the morning with a roaring hangover and some wtf moments.

Edited

At a company i used to work for the HR manager never went to the boozy work do - never. And I'm absolutely certain it was so that she never got herself directly involved in one of these ridiculous scenarios that OP is in.

roastedrapidly · 09/12/2025 18:33

You say you don't have time for 'this shite' but have the time to post about it on mumsnet and proudly tell everyone you are willing to lie when asked to be a witness, to cover up for someone who has groped and flashed at a colleague. You seem like a quality person.

Climbingrosexx · 09/12/2025 18:34

totalrocket · 09/12/2025 18:29

i am very sorry that happened to you.

All child abuse regardless of sex is horrific.

We were talking about drunken inappropriate touch / or sexual harassment. I still think a female being groped by a man is worse than a woman groping a man.

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So at what age do you tell that boy who has been abused that the odd drunken grope from a woman doesn't matter? Is there an exemption for those who have been abused. I seriously hope this sort of thing is called out more and more and women start getting prosecuted. I say this as a mother of a son and also a wife. If someone grabbed my dh in this way there would be hell to pay, if it happened to my son she would have his wife to deal with and I don't envy her that!

iSage · 09/12/2025 18:34

Betterbeanon · 09/12/2025 18:22

I never said it was no big deal.

I said that a woman flashing her breasts in different than a man flashing his penis.

Men can rape and that is completely irresponsible of society to equate the two when they are different.

Show quote history

I agree about the flashing. If it were just the breast flashing, you could probably argue that this shouldn't warrant any more censure than a man baring his chest. The equivalent of baring a penis would be baring vulva/labia, not breasts.

It's the testicle groping that's by far the worse offence, in my opinion.

2021x · 09/12/2025 18:36

This is the issue isn't it. She groped a male colleague and flashed another- all sexual harassment should be taken seriously. I knew a guy that was staying in a hotel with hen party and they broke his door down when he was sleeping! He was terrified.

It sounds like Jenny is a menace to men when intoxicated and this won't be the first time she has done this.

Dweetfidilove · 09/12/2025 18:38

What a marvellous bunch of folks - plastered, gropey, fighty exhibitionists.
And a 'nothing to see here' attitude. Yuck ☹️

totalrocket · 09/12/2025 18:38

Climbingrosexx · 09/12/2025 18:34

So at what age do you tell that boy who has been abused that the odd drunken grope from a woman doesn't matter? Is there an exemption for those who have been abused. I seriously hope this sort of thing is called out more and more and women start getting prosecuted. I say this as a mother of a son and also a wife. If someone grabbed my dh in this way there would be hell to pay, if it happened to my son she would have his wife to deal with and I don't envy her that!

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It’s not it that it doesn’t matter. I think it is worse man to female versus female to male due to the potential for violence.

A predatory older woman uninvitedly touching a 20 year old boy is not good either.

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