To tell them not to bother coming for Xmas?

[WantToHibernate]

We are doing Xmas dinner this year for my husbands family and my mum and brother. We have a mix of vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters so dinner menu will reflect this.

I’ve been vegan for 20 years and my daughter who is 17 has become vegan this year. My husband and other child eat meat.

My mother and brother have always disapproved of me being vegan. Over the years they’ve told me I’m wrong and will be ill. They also do stupid things like make animal noises when they eat meat which I just roll my eyes at. Now they’ve found out, whilst discussing Xmas dinner menus at our house this weekend, that my daughter has become vegan and they’ve responded as expected, telling her she’ll be ill, that she shouldn’t listen to me ‘brainwashing and bullying’ her, quizzing her on why she has become vegan, telling her she’s mad and no better than them. My daughter remained calm, said it was her decision, that I obviously haven’t bullied or brainwashed her, that she doesn’t think she’s any better than anyone else, she just wants to be vegan. When they continued were quiz her on why she has become a vegan, they called her a ‘typical preachy vegan’. She wasn’t preaching, she just answered their questions.

Things got heated as my mother started shouting. I told her that she doesn’t get to shout at my daughter in our house about this, and that if they both don’t stop the comments they can leave and not bother coming for Xmas. My brother said our mum can say what she likes and that I owed my mum an apology for saying that. My daughter left the room. My son told my mum and brother that they were out of line and went to check on my daughter. My mum and brother left.

My brother text later on to say that when they come on Xmas day they don’t want to be seated by me or my daughter. I’ve not responded as I wanted to cool down before I did, but my husband has said to just uninvited them because they’re arseholes and he’s not risking them upsetting our daughter on Xmas day. My daughter says she isn’t bothered and thinks they’re idiots.

If I uninvite them, I think that will probably be the end of my relationships with them but I think that is possibly for the best. There have been lots of problems with them over the years and I think we may be happier without them. They have had issues with other aspects of our life, choices we’ve made, my husbands family (who are all lovely) who they see as ‘snobby’, so the vegan issue is just another thing. They are ok is small doses. My other siblings have low or no contact with them and although I invited them to dinner too, they won’t come because our mother and brother are coming.

Self-awareness really isn't your strong suit, is it?

Glad you have told them, do they always gang up on you as mummy-son activity?

Most vegans I have met or had dinner have been judgemental and preachy and don't respect others peoples choices, but i would still never behave in any of their houses in this incredibly disrespecful way.

Good for you

Your brother is an idiot,we don't want to sit next to you or daughter.
Oh what a joyous atmosphere that will create.
I'd be telling them in view of recent events the invitation is withdrawn.

I can see OPs concern for her young brother. He was no doubt ordered to ring up and tell OP she can’t speak to their mother in that manner.

It’s a difficult decision and OP would want to keep in touch with him to offer a route away from the abusive environment he is currently in.

I suggest one way might be to have them for Xmas day but plan to laugh and mock their attempts to disrupt the meal and say to her brother in front of everyone that he doesn’t have to put up with this and be isolated from his other siblings.

Most vegans virtue-signal constantly - it's an essential part of being vegan - moral superiority (or at least the delusion of same).

That's why the overwhelming majority of vegans in the UK are middle-class and female. OP's house reflects the gender divide in veganism. Her husband and son have more sense.

https://www.nonstampcollecting.com/post/why-vegans-are-better-than-me

JoClogs - quit with the misogyny and general hatred of anyone that is different from you please.

It's not misogyny to point out that virtue signalling and veganism are both predominantly female pursuits. We call out toxic masculinity all the time - it doesn't mean we hate men.

I don't "hate" anyone - calling out classism is not hatred any more than calling out racism is.

In my experience, people who accuse other people of "hate" or "hate speech" are usually not very tolerant of different perspectives which they see as "hate".

The only classism here is that you seem to think the working class are intolerant and narrow minded. Thankfully that is not my experience of working class people.

No - those are your words not mine.

I think a middle-class woman looking down on her working-class mother is intolerant.

No it's being nasty but you know that.

And she's just a vegan

They sound a right pair - it was funny to read so far but I would imagine the same old jokes are a bit much. You need to do what's best for your family (those who live under your roof) and the thought of them ruining christmas for everyone else would be the deal breaker. They obviously have no respect for you or your children so they're not going to start behaving better, it shows that things are already worse by them stating where they won't be sitting for dinner. It is hard cutting people out of your life but your priority is yourself and your children. How much further are you prepared to let them dictate to you, they're adults fgs x

Nobody is looking down on anyone. The OP is angry, not contemptuous. And it sounds as though the veganism incident is the last straw, not the ultimate cause.

Let's not forget that OP's other older siblings are also NC/LC with their mother and youngest brother. What do you suppose the common factor is here?

If I ever had the balls to post on AIBU I think I would keep it as stripped back and basic as possible @ToWhitToWhoo even though you risk being criticised for dripfeeding. Because whatever is posted, you know some poster is going to latch on to some usually irrelevant piece of information, flag it up and project their own hang ups and insecurities.

I bet when she started this post the OP would have been amazed that she (and her daughter) would end up being criticized for being vegan and be accused of virtue-signalling!

@JoClogs - 'it's all about class'

Literally everyone else - 'no it's not, it's about poor behaviour'

@JoClogs - well this is my hill to die on so I will just bang on about this class thing and stick my fingers in my ears and make animal noises
🙄

What a lovely Christmas you'd all enjoy without them. No sniping or rude, pathetic behaviour, so you can all relax.
Honestly how can they justify their conduct in your home. Incidentally if you wanted to eat a tofu stir fry 😋 it's your choice. You've been patient enough.

OP isn't ashamed of her modest origins. She is, pretty much for the first time, taking a stand against her awful mother. This isn't about class. In fact, you are doing the working class a great disservice by equating OP's mum's rude and uncouth behaviour with being working class. OP's mum is obviously a shit parent and a bit of a cunt and she would be the same if she were middle class. OP has said:

'She wasn’t a good mum to us older ones but we had each other and we all managed to escape her and make good lives for ourselves, despite her trying to isolate us from friends, trying to discourage us from going to university and things like that.'

Are those things working class traits? Many working class people are extremely witty and erudite and nobody over the age of about 10 would consider making animal noises to mock vegans when they are eating funny or witty.

“I’m happy to acquiesce with your wish not to be seated near me or your granddaughter, so might I suggest you enjoy your Christmas dinner in your own home. This is my house and I say what goes. Our dietary choices are absolutely none of your business.”

It's a typical defence from someone to accuse other people of not having a sense of humour when they don't find mooing and other animal noises funny, especially given that it is used to mock people who choose not to eat meat or any kind of animal products.

In fact it just makes them come across as pathetically childish.

Class has nothing to do with dietary choices. I would suggest that education has more to do with it. It is entirely possible to be well educated and working class.

It’s the cheek of saying when they come for dinner they don’t want to be seated next to you. The audacity. I think I’d uninvite them. It’s a big day and a big meal to prepare and it might be time to say sorry but you can’t be treated like this.

Bloody hell, why do you even have a relationship with these people let alone invite them into your home?

I’m not a vegan btw but totally respect anyone else’s right to be so. Get rid.

Thanks for all of your comments, most of them anyway. Just to address a couple of things.

Firstly, a couple of people said something about me leaving my son to step in instead of doing it myself, which isn’t true. My mum was shouting and I told her that she doesn’t get to speak to my daughter like that. I told them that the comments stop or they can leave and that they wont be coming for Xmas. My daughter left the room and my son then told them they were out of line. I didn’t go after my daughter myself because I wasn’t going to leave them in a room with my son when things were heated and my mother was being aggressive, so my son went to check on his sister. I dealt with them, my son just happened to make a comment before going after his sister when he realised I was going to try to get them to leave. When they refused to back down and apologise, I opened the door and they left.

Secondly the whole preachy vegan thing, that isn’t me or my daughter. My partner ate meat when I met him and still does to this day. We agreed that our children’s diets would include meat and dairy when we discussed having children. Our son still eats meat. Veganism isn’t a topic we debate between ourselves or with anyone else, we just get on with life. Our daughter only brought up being vegan because of my mother’s comments. There is no preaching or judgement about food here. Any discussion about veganism has always been brought up by my mother, not us.

Thirdly, I’m not ashamed of my mother because of anything to do with class. I don’t know what class she would be anyway or how that is judged in today’s world and I don’t care. What I do feel is disappointed in her as a person. She is unkind and has been a terrible mother to us all. If it wasn’t for my younger brother, I wouldn’t bother with her at all. It is offensive to link working class people with this sort of behaviour. Terrible people and parents exist in all walks of life. It’s not normal to make animal noises when eating meat to try to upset others.

My younger brother phoned our older brother yesterday. He was very upset and said he thinks he’s really fucked up and lost me for good. He was honest to our older brother about what happened, said he had upset my daughter and that it all went too far. Our older brother told him that we can’t keep doing this, that he is a man now and we can’t make excuses for his behaviour. My younger brother said he realises how bad it’s got and that he’s ashamed and embarrassed of how he treated my daughter, but he feels trapped and doesn’t know how to deal with our mum.

He has since text me to apologise for what he said and for the text he sent about not wanting to sit by us, which he said our mum actually wrote and sent from his phone. That is definitely something she would do. He asked if it would be ok to speak to my daughter to which I said I’d talk to her and let him know. She agreed to speak to him and he has apologised to her and said that he should have told our mum she was wrong and that he was a ‘twat’ for joining in. He told her he’s going to sort himself out and be better.

He is going to stay with our older brother for Christmas and New Year and my older brother has asked him to work for him for a while, then consider going back to uni and he’ll help him get his own place. Older brother lives a couple of hours drive from our mum so we are hoping that putting distance between the two of them will work. He hasn’t yet told our mum that he is going to stay with our older brother for Christmas or the other plans and I’m expecting trouble when she knows. He thinks she’ll kick him out, which won’t be a bad thing.

Oh well done OP, that is a fabulous update!! Your strength to stand up to your mum enabled all of this! Your bond as siblings is really lovely, and that is such good news that your younger brother is seeing the light. Onwards and upwards and I hope you have a lovely Christmas that is the first of many lovely relaxed Christmasses!!

That's so good to hear OP. I'm glad your younger DB has made his peace with his DNiece; that was really important.
Miracles do happen and your 'D'M may see sense when she hears your younger DB is spending Xmas elsewhere but I doubt it.
I'm glad things have turned out like this and your younger DB may have been saved after all.